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Post by Newan on Dec 23, 2017 14:22:32 GMT -5
Other than some political stuff I think TPM is by far the most childish of all the movies (assuming we are not counting TCW movie). Personally I don't see TLJ as being that much of a kid movie, I thought the fight in the throne room was one of the more violent/ graphic lightsaber fights in any of the movies tbh I still don't think it's quite up there with Anakin's immolation, but yeah, some stuff in this was pretty hard core. Kinda shows how rating standards have changed. Some of the violence here would've gotten it a 15 rating in the UK if it were released some years ago. These days you can get away with almost anything, whilst maintaining a 12/PG-13 rating, so long as the bloodshed isn't too hefty  Yeah I guess but I really don’t see TLJ as being a 5 year olds movie either imo |
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Post by Ivar-Jedi on Dec 23, 2017 18:47:35 GMT -5
I've seen it 4 times now (don't judge me  ) Personally it is my favorite star wars movie tied with Empire. |
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Post by Star on Dec 23, 2017 23:27:43 GMT -5
Watched it again today, and I liked it more in regards to how they handled Luke and Snoke. The entire third act felt much stronger to me, whereas the middle was probably the slowest part mainly due to Canto Bight not tying in as well as it could have. The Resistance scenes maintained a certain intensity to them, which helped prevent them from dragging out (because honestly not much happens with them until they land on Crait within the final 45 mins). Still not a fan of Rose's character and I think that this hurts some of Finn's development. Besides that though, still enjoyed it overall.
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 24, 2017 9:14:49 GMT -5
My problem with the new trilogy is that they make it up as they go. JJ set up potential plots and had a vision for the next movie ---- Rian comes in and says my way or the highway, I have the best vision *Kathleen hands him three more movies and let's him do whatever to The Last Jedi*.
They don't know how this trilogy will end and that is what bothers me. This movie by far felt like a rough draft of what could happen in the movie. I'm a process based writer when I write screenplays where I don't know how I"ll end it, but this is the final product and it still feels processs based with no goal or endpoint in mind.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 26, 2017 17:03:58 GMT -5
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Post by Pinda on Dec 26, 2017 17:06:08 GMT -5
My problem with the new trilogy is that they make it up as they go. JJ set up potential plots and had a vision for the next movie ---- Rian comes in and says my way or the highway, I have the best vision *Kathleen hands him three more movies and let's him do whatever to The Last Jedi*. They don't know how this trilogy will end and that is what bothers me. This movie by far felt like a rough draft of what could happen in the movie. I'm a process based writer when I write screenplays where I don't know how I"ll end it, but this is the final product and it still feels processs based with no goal or endpoint in mind. Yeah they literally had NOTHING planned. They recently confirmed TFA was basically made as a standalone movie. Abrams had no plans for Snoke, Rey's parents, where the characters would end up or even about why Luke went into exile. They had NO plans, NOTHING. I get that plans may change along the way, but you should at least have a plan when you are working on a planned trilogy for one of the most successful movie series in history. |
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 26, 2017 17:40:08 GMT -5
My problem with the new trilogy is that they make it up as they go. JJ set up potential plots and had a vision for the next movie ---- Rian comes in and says my way or the highway, I have the best vision *Kathleen hands him three more movies and let's him do whatever to The Last Jedi*. They don't know how this trilogy will end and that is what bothers me. This movie by far felt like a rough draft of what could happen in the movie. I'm a process based writer when I write screenplays where I don't know how I"ll end it, but this is the final product and it still feels processs based with no goal or endpoint in mind. Yeah they literally had NOTHING planned. They recently confirmed TFA was basically made as a standalone movie. Abrams had no plans for Snoke, Rey's parents, where the characters would end up or even about why Luke went into exile. They had NO plans, NOTHING. I get that plans may change along the way, but you should at least have a plan when you are working on a planned trilogy for one of the most successful movie series in history. Imagine if George R R Martin actually had no idea who Jon Snow’s parents were and then revealed in TWOW they were literal nobodies. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Dec 26, 2017 17:41:07 GMT -5
My problem with the new trilogy is that they make it up as they go. JJ set up potential plots and had a vision for the next movie ---- Rian comes in and says my way or the highway, I have the best vision *Kathleen hands him three more movies and let's him do whatever to The Last Jedi*. They don't know how this trilogy will end and that is what bothers me. This movie by far felt like a rough draft of what could happen in the movie. I'm a process based writer when I write screenplays where I don't know how I"ll end it, but this is the final product and it still feels processs based with no goal or endpoint in mind. Yeah they literally had NOTHING planned. They recently confirmed TFA was basically made as a standalone movie. Abrams had no plans for Snoke, Rey's parents, where the characters would end up or even about why Luke went into exile. They had NO plans, NOTHING. I get that plans may change along the way, but you should at least have a plan when you are working on a planned trilogy for one of the most successful movie series in history. To bring some contrast to the table, Jackson's Lord of the rings trilogy (albeit based on the novels) were planned out and those films famously, and rightfully it must be said, ransacked the Oscars. Even George had long laid out plans when making the OT that went through edit after edit (some of which were fairly obvious in the final cut of ROTJ) until he finally settled on a three film structure. If anything the prequels were, in spite of their quality, perhaps even more planned out. This is all from a guy who claims to not be a smart guy, yet a massive corporation can't seem to get some damn long term blueprints whipped up like he did. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 26, 2017 18:12:22 GMT -5
Yeah they literally had NOTHING planned. They recently confirmed TFA was basically made as a standalone movie. Abrams had no plans for Snoke, Rey's parents, where the characters would end up or even about why Luke went into exile. They had NO plans, NOTHING. I get that plans may change along the way, but you should at least have a plan when you are working on a planned trilogy for one of the most successful movie series in history. Imagine if George R R Martin actually had no idea who Jon Snow’s parents were and then revealed in TWOW they were literal nobodies. Yeah. Imagine Jon asking Bran about his mother. "Your mother is just some random whore. It does not matter at all." Then in the next chapter we find out the Night King is working for a mysterious entity with godlike abilities. He is then not mentioned at all in the rest of the book and fans speculate for years about his origins, goals and powers. Then the next book starts with the Night King meeting with his master, before we learn anything though he has a zombie stab the godlike creature from behind while he is distracted (even though this creature is supposed to have flawless visions of the future) and he dies, and is never mentioned again. Oh and Jon manages to defeat the White Walkers and survive because he is Azor Ahai, but years later we get a spin-off set 30 years after GOT where the White Walkers are back, led by an even more powerful version of the Night King. My point is, if this was any other franchise people would not accept this bullshit. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 26, 2017 18:24:50 GMT -5
Yeah they literally had NOTHING planned. They recently confirmed TFA was basically made as a standalone movie. Abrams had no plans for Snoke, Rey's parents, where the characters would end up or even about why Luke went into exile. They had NO plans, NOTHING. I get that plans may change along the way, but you should at least have a plan when you are working on a planned trilogy for one of the most successful movie series in history. To bring some contrast to the table, Jackson's Lord of the rings trilogy (albeit based on the novels) were planned out and those films famously, and rightfully it must be said, ransacked the Oscars. Even George had long laid out plans when making the OT that went through edit after edit (some of which were fairly obvious in the final cut of ROTJ) until he finally settled on a three film structure. If anything the prequels were, in spite of their quality, perhaps even more planned out. This is all from a guy who claims to not be a smart guy, yet a massive corporation can't seem to get some damn long term blueprints whipped up like he did. George Lucas even offered them plans for the sequel trilogy, but they rejected those plans because they probably did not want to associate their new movies with Lucas. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Dec 27, 2017 6:01:07 GMT -5
To bring some contrast to the table, Jackson's Lord of the rings trilogy (albeit based on the novels) were planned out and those films famously, and rightfully it must be said, ransacked the Oscars. Even George had long laid out plans when making the OT that went through edit after edit (some of which were fairly obvious in the final cut of ROTJ) until he finally settled on a three film structure. If anything the prequels were, in spite of their quality, perhaps even more planned out. This is all from a guy who claims to not be a smart guy, yet a massive corporation can't seem to get some damn long term blueprints whipped up like he did. George Lucas even offered them plans for the sequel trilogy, but they rejected those plans because they probably did not want to associate their new movies with Lucas. Yeah, I don't know any concrete details, but at least it was a plan and, as anyone sensible will tell you, having a plan is better than simply going by he seat of your pants and making it up as you go along. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 28, 2017 18:17:17 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it?
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 28, 2017 20:20:12 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? Probably that they never bothered to figure out who Rey’s parents were. You can’t deny they was surprising. I mean, even I didn’t think they were that lazy. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2017 20:24:58 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? Probably Kylo killing Snoke... honestly I don't think that one was really predicted. I think everyone thought Rey or Luke would do it. Or Kylo and Rey teaming up to take down Snoke though I kinda predicted that one. |
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Post by Star on Dec 28, 2017 21:31:07 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? I think the twist could either be Kylo killing Snoke or Luke using a Force Illusion to save the Resistance, reignite hope in the galaxy, and then transcend into a Force Ghost. However, I think it will be nearly impossible for any Star Wars movie to ever surpass the twist that TESB gave. Not only was it the first real twist in the films, but it also had such an impact emotionally and on the plot that will be difficult to beat. |
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 28, 2017 21:52:08 GMT -5
TESB twist worked so well because it answered a question no one was asking. ANH had already told us what happened to Anakin Skywalker, so having that challenged was something no one could see coming. And not only that, it made audiences question everything they knew up to that point. How could Vader possibly share blood with our hero? Why did Obi-Wan lie? If Anakin could not overcome the Dark Side with Obi-Wan there to guide him, how would Luke stand a chance? The reveal just kicked everything up to eleven, and nothing they did in this movie was ever going to top that.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 29, 2017 17:02:15 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? I think the twist could either be Kylo killing Snoke or Luke using a Force Illusion to save the Resistance, reignite hope in the galaxy, and then transcend into a Force Ghost. However, I think it will be nearly impossible for any Star Wars movie to ever surpass the twist that TESB gave. Not only was it the first real twist in the films, but it also had such an impact emotionally and on the plot that will be difficult to beat. If those were the twists Disney cannot distinguish bad writing from twists. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 29, 2017 17:03:33 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? Probably Kylo killing Snoke... honestly I don't think that one was really predicted. I think everyone thought Rey or Luke would do it. Or Kylo and Rey teaming up to take down Snoke though I kinda predicted that one. Kylo and Rey teaming-up against Snoke was hardly a surprise. Just did not think Snoke would die so easily... that's not a twist, that is a disappointment. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 29, 2017 17:04:38 GMT -5
I remember them saying there would be a twist in this movie that would surpass the ESB twist... Where was it? Probably that they never bothered to figure out who Rey’s parents were. You can’t deny they was surprising. I mean, even I didn’t think they were that lazy. Well, I don't think it was too surprising... I did not have faith in Disney, I knew they would mess up the Rey's parents reveal. No twist there. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 29, 2017 17:07:11 GMT -5
TESB twist worked so well because it answered a question no one was asking. ANH had already told us what happened to Anakin Skywalker, so having that challenged was something no one could see coming. And not only that, it made audiences question everything they knew up to that point. How could Vader possibly share blood with our hero? Why did Obi-Wan lie? If Anakin could not overcome the Dark Side with Obi-Wan there to guide him, how would Luke stand a chance? The reveal just kicked everything up to eleven, and nothing they did in this movie was ever going to top that. Well, they could have topped it if they had some excellent writers. But I never expected them to, they did not have to top one of the greatest twists in cinema history. And setting up a twist (Snoke, Rey's parents) is not bad either if the answer is satisfying and worthy of the viewers attention. Last Jedi had no major twists though. |
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Post by Star on Dec 29, 2017 21:08:46 GMT -5
I think the twist could either be Kylo killing Snoke or Luke using a Force Illusion to save the Resistance, reignite hope in the galaxy, and then transcend into a Force Ghost. However, I think it will be nearly impossible for any Star Wars movie to ever surpass the twist that TESB gave. Not only was it the first real twist in the films, but it also had such an impact emotionally and on the plot that will be difficult to beat. If those were the twists Disney cannot distinguish bad writing from twists. To be fair, twists may not be popular with everyone. Empire's twist probably would not have been as well-received if it was the ninth film released versus the second. Although we look back on it today as being spectacular, we are partly biased due to nostalgia, and we may have had a different opinion of it if Disney made that move versus Lucas (i.e. the reveal not being "true Star Wars" plot choice). For instance, it could be a disappointment to many that Vader was Luke's father, since that would potentially prohibit the main hero from killing him (something fans could have wanted to see). Another example could be the twist with Luke-Leia being twins. For many, it could have been a major disappointment, because maybe they wanted to see the two end up together or at least have more chemistry. This concept extends to cinema twists beyond Star Wars as well. Also important to note is that TESB was not that popular among critics or fans upon its initial release, and it is largely due to its darker tone and twists. It took time for its risks to become accepted and then appreciated by most fans. It's not that there were disappointments in TLJ, per se, but rather that fans have built these huge expectations with little to no basis, something that hadn't really begun when TESB and even ROTJ released. The excitement and theories were still present, but not nearly to the extent that it is today with the new movies. At the end of the day, there is always going to be endless possibilities about what could have been in the films. You cannot always dismiss a twist/concept as bad writing if it doesn't align with how you would have preferred it, but you can absolutely still disagree with how it was handled. After all, there are many fan ideas that tend to be way better than the movies. (I'm more so arguing a point here rather than saying I'm in love with how everything was handled in TLJ or that I dislike the OT twists) |
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Post by Newan on Dec 30, 2017 0:47:13 GMT -5
If I had to make a ranking with Rouge One included so ten movies I'd probably rank them:
ESB
ANH
ROTS/ Rouge 1
ROTS/ Rouge 1
ROTJ
TLJ
TFA
TPM
AOTC
I'm honestly still conflicted on ROTS vs Rouge 1... I like both so much and I even watched Rouge 1 three or four times at this point and I'm still undecided. Maybe Rouge 1 relies more beside ANH just for the fact of how connected they are though and not because of quality or anything.
I mean even if you say the story and characters of both AOTC/TPM and TLJ suck, I still put it ahead because I like the action scenes more in TLJ. It feels more real/ raw and not so clean/ choreographed.
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Post by Star on Dec 30, 2017 9:58:34 GMT -5
If I had to make a ranking with Rouge One included so ten movies I'd probably rank them: ESB ANH ROTS/ Rouge 1 ROTS/ Rouge 1 ROTJ TLJ TFA TPM AOTC I'm honestly still conflicted on ROTS vs Rouge 1... I like both so much and I even watched Rouge 1 three or four times at this point and I'm still undecided. Maybe Rouge 1 relies more beside ANH just for the fact of how connected they are though and not because of quality or anything. I mean even if you say the story and characters of both AOTC/TPM and TLJ suck, I still put it ahead because I like the action scenes more in TLJ. It feels more real/ raw and not so clean/ choreographed. Our ranking is basically the same. Only difference is that I have TLJ above ROTJ, but those two are very close for me. My biggest complaint about ROTJ is that it feels sort of messy with plot delivery despite giving us a great conclusion to the OT. I rank ROTS higher than R1 because I think the characters are better overall (of course, that's taking into account TCW development) and it's overall impact to the saga as a whole. Plus, as much as I loved the smaller scale feeling R1 gives along with other cool moments like Scarif and Vader, I prefer the grandness ROTS provides, from the Battle of Coruscant to the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight. It's good enough for me to forgive the film for its other flaws. |
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Jan 1, 2018 12:23:26 GMT -5
Snokes death would be better if there was more buildup + scenes with snoke + development. I felt nothing from it because I hardly knew Snoke.
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Post by Newan on Jan 2, 2018 14:48:22 GMT -5
So in Rebels, Yoda seems to do the same projection thing as Luke when speaking to Ezra and when he appeared to Ahsoka... he has a more OT Hermit look and he's sitting on a log so he might be projecting himself from Dagobah, maybe from the cave since it strong with the force
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jan 2, 2018 15:38:48 GMT -5
So in Rebels, Yoda seems to do the same projection thing as Luke when speaking to Ezra and when he appeared to Ahsoka... he has a more OT Hermit look and he's sitting on a log so he might be projecting himself from Dagobah, maybe from the cave since it strong with the force So he's using the cave as an antenna for his Force Skype call? |
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Post by Newan on Jan 2, 2018 17:53:24 GMT -5
So in Rebels, Yoda seems to do the same projection thing as Luke when speaking to Ezra and when he appeared to Ahsoka... he has a more OT Hermit look and he's sitting on a log so he might be projecting himself from Dagobah, maybe from the cave since it strong with the force So he's using the cave as an antenna for his Force Skype call? Well Luke was in a place with a very strong connection to the force wen he projected himself so makes sense Yoda would need to be too |
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Post by Newan on Jan 12, 2018 3:57:43 GMT -5
I rewatched the masterpiece that's is ESB tonight, two things I noticed. Vader and Luke reach out to each other in the same way Kylo and Rey do but that was by Snokes design in TLJ according to him. So that probably goes to show how powerful Luke really was to be able to communicate with Vader like that.
Also Lukes robot hand has the artificial skin in ESB but in the new movies it's an actual robotic hand like Anakins
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jan 12, 2018 4:45:09 GMT -5
I rewatched the masterpiece that's is ESB tonight, two things I noticed. Vader and Luke reach out to each other in the same way Kylo and Rey do but that was by Snokes design in TLJ according to him. So that probably goes to show how powerful Luke really was to be able to communicate with Vader like that. Also Lukes robot hand has the artificial skin in ESB but in the new movies it's an actual robotic hand like Anakins Perhaps the fact they're related helps get that kind of signal? That said, I don't think anyone other than the Skywalkers have done that. As for the hand thing, I'm guessing it got reduced to its basic, metal skeleton when Ben exploded the hut. |
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Post by Pinda on Jan 12, 2018 5:46:08 GMT -5
I rewatched the masterpiece that's is ESB tonight, two things I noticed. Vader and Luke reach out to each other in the same way Kylo and Rey do but that was by Snokes design in TLJ according to him. So that probably goes to show how powerful Luke really was to be able to communicate with Vader like that. Also Lukes robot hand has the artificial skin in ESB but in the new movies it's an actual robotic hand like Anakins They did not reach out in the same way right? Kylo and Rey could see/touch each other. Luke just has the regular force connection force users seem to have. |
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) Personally it is my favorite star wars movie tied with Empire.
it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 