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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 15:08:19 GMT -5
I don't know if you guys read about this, but one of the first credible rumors for The Last Jedi was for a scene that didn't happen in the film. Kylo and the Knights of Ren show up on Ahch-To, Luke dispatches the Knights with ease, and Kylo and Rey fight each other. Kylo either wins or has a stalemate, and then runs off before Luke gets to him. I'm disappointed this didn't end up happening... but I guess it would have been too predictable. But still, has everyone forgotten that the Knights of Ren exist?  I guess they're the handful of students that Luke said Kylo took with him. I remember reading that a long time ago. It would have been exciting, but given everything else in the movie, I'm not sure how well it would have fit. But I think if the Knights of Ren had been in the "Throne Room", it would have been a great role for them. |
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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 15:14:26 GMT -5
It seemed like they were scared to use Luke's character too much in the film. Or Rian Johnson/Disney are really pushing to move beyond the OT characters and expand Star Wars into something new for this generation. I think what bothers me most about the film is that Luke dies, especially in the way he did. Like Pinda said, it almost makes his Force illusion pointless, since he kicks the bucket anyway. I appreciate that they showcase Leia's Force abilities, but it felt out of place they way it was done. The added abilities of Force Ghosts were also a bit strange, but I guess it can work... And yes, I agree with you about the ending scene. Yeah, they really seem hell bent on eliminating all of the old characters... who's even left now? Chewie, C-3PO, R2-D2, and Nien Nunb? Leia's definitely going to be gone in IX. Hopefully Luke has a Gandalf the White kind of return. I think Luke's death is also easier to take if you don't think of it as a death. Maybe he realized that he could do more good if he transcended the physical realm and became one with the force... so he became a Force Ghost without dying like Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin. That's how I see it at least. Yeah, they even killed off ol' Ackbar!   I can't see them killing Chewbacca, R2, or Threepio, but then again, I didn't think Disney would have it in them to kill Luke, at least not until Episode IX. The way the movie showed things, I doubt Luke would come back as a "mortal", even though I really wish he would. Given the new turn they've taken with Force Ghosts, I suppose Luke might give a new meaning to Obi-Wan's whole final words with Vader in ANH. I'll admit it's intriguing, but it still bothers me that he is dead, especially with Han and Leia now gone too. However, I think originally Ep. VII was supposed to feature Han, Ep. VIII Luke, and Ep. IX Leia. But due to Fisher's death, they're changing up IX now. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 15, 2017 15:18:25 GMT -5
Okay, so I think my biggest issues are the following: - Snoke dying so easily, when he was shown to be very powerful (he needed more time on screen or at least backstory) - Luke dying, especially the way it was done (kind of insulting to his character) - Phasma basically going out like a bitch (started off good, but then ended too easily; it was overhyped in trailers) I am really not sure where they are going with the plot at this point. Maybe that also bothers me. At least with Empire and Clones, it gave a better sense of the state of matters and where it would potentially lead. It seems like TLJ went for so much and almost attempted to be too different from the previous films. Yeah Snoke dying was not really a problem, the way they handled it was. They should have revealed some more about his character and they should have had Kyle and Rey team-up against him in a real battle... They had plenty of time to do more with Snoke in this movie, but they didn't. Unless he somehow survived his character just seems like a waste. Like if they wanted a leader Kylo Ren could overthrow, why did they have to make him so powerful and mysterious? Some random force user weaker than Palpatine (ex-inquisitor perhaps) would have done the job just as well. |
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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 15:23:39 GMT -5
I read about this somewhere, but Kylo's whole message about "letting the past die; it's the only way to move on" really speaks about an overarching theme in the movie. A lot of conventional Star Wars concepts are either being pushed to the side or altered as new ones come forth. It's like Rian Johnson is guiding the audience along with the characters in the film to this new territory for the franchise. I get the idea and in theory it is nice, because Star Wars films are pretty formulaic for the most part.
Like, the OT can be considered true/pure Star Wars. With the PT, it was different, but it still felt like Star Wars, especially as the plot progressed toward everything we see unfold in the OT. However, with the ST, they can't really do this. We are forced to move beyond. I like how Rian Johnson really took some liberties with the lore of the universe, but I think it was a little much to occur all at once in a single film. Maybe if some of it was left for IX or some of it was shown in VII (i.e. the Force Ghost changes introduced), then it would not have seemed as radical. I agree that Star Wars needs to evolve if it is to continue being successful, because similar stories can only be retold so much. I think it was borderline too much for one movie though, especially when VII was not very different from past Star Wars films.
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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 15:26:50 GMT -5
Okay, so I think my biggest issues are the following: - Snoke dying so easily, when he was shown to be very powerful (he needed more time on screen or at least backstory) - Luke dying, especially the way it was done (kind of insulting to his character) - Phasma basically going out like a bitch (started off good, but then ended too easily; it was overhyped in trailers) I am really not sure where they are going with the plot at this point. Maybe that also bothers me. At least with Empire and Clones, it gave a better sense of the state of matters and where it would potentially lead. It seems like TLJ went for so much and almost attempted to be too different from the previous films. Yeah Snoke dying was not really a problem, the way they handled it was. They should have revealed some more about his character and they should have had Kyle and Rey team-up against him in a real battle... They had plenty of time to do more with Snoke in this movie, but they didn't. Unless he somehow survived his character just seems like a waste. Like if they wanted a leader Kylo Ren could overthrow, why did they have to make him so powerful and mysterious? Some random force user weaker than Palpatine (ex-inquisitor perhaps) would have done the job just as well. I was hoping the rest of the movie that Snoke wasn't truly dead. But it would seem he is now, unless there is a clone version of him (but waiting until IX to introduce that would be awkward). Seeing Snoke in combat would have been awesome, because the little we do see of his powers, he is very interesting and menacing. |
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Post by Potato on Dec 15, 2017 16:20:55 GMT -5
Yeah, they really seem hell bent on eliminating all of the old characters... who's even left now? Chewie, C-3PO, R2-D2, and Nien Nunb? Leia's definitely going to be gone in IX. Hopefully Luke has a Gandalf the White kind of return. I think Luke's death is also easier to take if you don't think of it as a death. Maybe he realized that he could do more good if he transcended the physical realm and became one with the force... so he became a Force Ghost without dying like Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin. That's how I see it at least. Yeah, they even killed off ol' Ackbar! I can't see them killing Chewbacca, R2, or Threepio, but then again, I didn't think Disney would have it in them to kill Luke, at least not until Episode IX. The way the movie showed things, I doubt Luke would come back as a "mortal", even though I really wish he would. Given the new turn they've taken with Force Ghosts, I suppose Luke might give a new meaning to Obi-Wan's whole final words with Vader in ANH. I'll admit it's intriguing, but it still bothers me that he is dead, especially with Han and Leia now gone too. However, I think originally Ep. VII was supposed to feature Han, Ep. VIII Luke, and Ep. IX Leia. But due to Fisher's death, they're changing up IX now. I was so bummed out that they killed Ackbar. I guess that's a fitting way for him to go out, and he was in his 80s or 90s... But Luke was only 53.  |
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Post by Potato on Dec 15, 2017 16:22:04 GMT -5
Also, since this takes place right after The Force Awakens... this was a very eventful week. The New Republic was destroyed, the First Order began taking over the galaxy, most of the Resistance was destroyed, Snoke was usurped by Kylo Ren, and Luke Skywalker and Han Solo both died. Hopefully there will be a time jump of a few years for the next one.
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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 16:39:41 GMT -5
How would you rank the movies with Ep. VIII included? I'm still trying to figure out my thoughts for this one, but I do think it had more good than bad.
I'm thinking something like:
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Revenge of the Sith
4. Rogue One
5. The Last Jedi
6. Return of the Jedi
7. The Force Awakens
8. The Phantom Menace
9. Attack of the Clones
Honestly, 4-7 are pretty close for me. Right now, I probably have TLJ lower than where I put it, but I have the feeling that when I watch it again, I'll like it more, hence why I ranked it higher. I'm basing my ratings off everything (critically, enjoyment, characters, plot/how it ties into saga, etc).
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Post by Pinda on Dec 15, 2017 16:59:52 GMT -5
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Empires Strikes Back
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Rogue One
6. Attack of the Clones
7. A New Hope
8. The Last Jedi
9. The Force Awakens.
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Post by Ivar-Jedi on Dec 15, 2017 18:12:01 GMT -5
The image of Leia been sucked into space is burned in my mind and broke my heart. I loved the part where they showed her using the force, been waiting to see her actually it!
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Post by Ivar-Jedi on Dec 15, 2017 18:17:33 GMT -5
How would you rank the movies with Ep. VIII included? I'm still trying to figure out my thoughts for this one, but I do think it had more good than bad. I'm thinking something like: 1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Revenge of the Sith 4. Rogue One 5. The Last Jedi 6. Return of the Jedi 7. The Force Awakens 8. The Phantom Menace 9. Attack of the Clones Honestly, 4-7 are pretty close for me. Right now, I probably have TLJ lower than where I put it, but I have the feeling that when I watch it again, I'll like it more, hence why I ranked it higher. I'm basing my ratings off everything (critically, enjoyment, characters, plot/how it ties into saga, etc). 1. The Empire Strikes Back 2. The Last Jedi 3. Revenge of The Sith 4. Rogue One 5. Return of The Jedi 6. The Force Awakens 7. A New Hope 8. The Phantom Menace 9. Attack of The Clones 10. The Clone Wars Movie |
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Post by Ivar-Jedi on Dec 15, 2017 18:25:23 GMT -5
And I swear... there better not be 1 million new theories about who the broom boy is.... Too late. My friends were already discussing heavily that they were 'certain' the boy will be a major player in either Episode IX or Rian Johnson's upcoming trilogy. Even though i told them it was obvious that is not the case. But yeah because there are so many movies coming out every little thing is being theory crafted and it's more annoying then helpful. |
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Post by Ivar-Jedi on Dec 15, 2017 18:26:38 GMT -5
It seemed like they were scared to use Luke's character too much in the film. Or Rian Johnson/Disney are really pushing to move beyond the OT characters and expand Star Wars into something new for this generation. I think what bothers me most about the film is that Luke dies, especially in the way he did. Like Pinda said, it almost makes his Force illusion pointless, since he kicks the bucket anyway. I appreciate that they showcase Leia's Force abilities, but it felt out of place they way it was done. The added abilities of Force Ghosts were also a bit strange, but I guess it can work... And yes, I agree with you about the ending scene. Yeah, they really seem hell bent on eliminating all of the old characters... who's even left now? Chewie, C-3PO, R2-D2, and Nien Nunb? Leia's definitely going to be gone in IX. Hopefully Luke has a Gandalf the White kind of return. I think Luke's death is also easier to take if you don't think of it as a death. Maybe he realized that he could do more good if he transcended the physical realm and became one with the force... so he became a Force Ghost without dying like Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Anakin. That's how I see it at least. Honestly, that is the whole point of his death. You got it perfectly. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 15, 2017 18:50:12 GMT -5
We are all forgetting the Star Wars holiday special... It actually has a more sensible plot than Last Jedi... but I will still list it as #10
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Post by bane on Dec 15, 2017 23:36:38 GMT -5
honstly the whole thing was poorly done in my opinion, too rushed/poorly thought through in my opinion.
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Post by Star on Dec 15, 2017 23:57:04 GMT -5
I wish Canto Bight had been better utilized. I love the idea of seeing the civilian side of Star Wars, especially a corner of the galaxy that lacks most morals. That's part of why I like Bespin and Coruscant so much. But unlike those two planets, Canto Bight did not really affect the plot too much, which was disappointing. It introduced us to DJ, but his purpose was kind of ruined after the actions of Admiral Holdo. DJ seems like a promising character, and it'd be neat to see more of him in IX. This was also where most of Finn's character development occurred, so it also made him (and Rose) feel irrelevant at times due to how the planet and their reason for being there was pretty pointless in the end.
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Post by Potato on Dec 16, 2017 15:22:03 GMT -5
Even though I don't dislike what they did with Luke as much as a lot of other people, I really feel bad for Mark Hamill. You can see in countless interviews that he disagrees with the direction they went with Luke. He seemed really excited to come back as an awesome Jedi Master, but he seems disappointed with what they've done (and rightfully so).
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Post by Potato on Dec 16, 2017 15:28:20 GMT -5
I also don't like their excuse of killing off all of these characters. Rian Johnson said that this was the new characters' trilogy, so they had to completely shift the focus to them for the last part. I get that they want to focus on new characters, but that doesn't mean you have to kill off all of the older ones. It just feels lazy. Not to mention, it doesn't have to just be the new characters' trilogy. They could have had it shared with the older characters. Rey and Finn are popular enough now to where they won't be overshadowed by the older cast. There's no need to kill them all off. Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with them killing characters. I thought Han Solo's death worked really well and helped the story. Luke's was just... unnecessary. And now it just feels like there's a giant hole that can't be filled (especially with the inevitability of Leia dying too).
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 17, 2017 17:03:18 GMT -5
Meh. Just meh.
Is it just me or I was really really hoping for Finn to die. Am I the only one who seriously dislikes his character. Love Poe now though. But Phasma still got 0 improvement. Too much happened and eliminations. Right when development was about to get started they end it too quickly for example the dreadnaughts, Snoke, Snoke's ship, Luke, Holdo, etc.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 17, 2017 17:26:07 GMT -5
Some people are saying that the point of Luke's illusion scene was not to have him survive but to set up a "Snoke's death was an illusion" reveal. I doubt that's the case... but if it is the movie would make more sense.
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 17, 2017 17:39:58 GMT -5
The land battle reminded me of Ba Sing Se battle. And how they kept tracking them through lightspeed reminded me of the ATLA episode where Appa's hair sheds and leads Azula to them....
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Post by bane on Dec 17, 2017 17:40:23 GMT -5
Some people are saying that the point of Luke's illusion scene was not to have him survive but to set up a "Snoke's death was an illusion" reveal. I doubt that's the case... but if it is the movie would make more sense. Such a stupid concept though... like... as stupid as Luke's death was, I don't think it would be a good idea for the story for that to happen. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 17, 2017 17:45:45 GMT -5
Some people are saying that the point of Luke's illusion scene was not to have him survive but to set up a "Snoke's death was an illusion" reveal. I doubt that's the case... but if it is the movie would make more sense. Such a stupid concept though... like... as stupid as Luke's death was, I don't think it would be a good idea for the story. The route they took now wasn't a good idea either... I feel like people are just coming up with ways to have the story make sense. Snoke doing a force illusion would make more sense than what we got now. |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 17, 2017 19:13:45 GMT -5
Mark Hamill really seems to hate this movie.
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 18, 2017 21:27:55 GMT -5
News outlets are claiming people who don’t like TLJ are just trolls lol.
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Post by Kenbo on Dec 19, 2017 6:09:20 GMT -5
The last confrontation between light and darkness. The last of a legendary order. The Last Jedi. The last chapter in the never ending Star Battles saga.
See it for the first time. For the last time.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 19, 2017 13:06:36 GMT -5
News outlets are claiming people who don’t like TLJ are just trolls lol. New outlets are probably too afraid to go against Disney... the company that controls half the film industry. In fact, I think it was Disney who asked Rotten Tomatoes to lock their audience score for Last Jedi. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Dec 19, 2017 13:12:40 GMT -5
Finally saw it here on my birthday. I felt so hollow after seeing this. First off, some of the shots are incredible, Luke's one-liner to Ben was terrific and Poe really did shine here, but everything else was ridiculous. A lot of the cast was stupid, Rey especially, Kylo Ren is now officially the worst villain in the saga, Snoke being a waste of the mo-cap money (poor Andy Serkis...), Phasma doing nothing of value, the Resistance a shrinking bunch of evacuating people got pretty silly to the end, Leia's Star Lord scene was prequel level ironic comedy gold and, dear god, did Luke get totally wasted here. Mark Hamill had every right to disagree and I'm sure he still does. Killing him off, barely giving him a reason to, what, go into exile and die? All because he had a bad feeling his nephew would become an emo manchild and almost considered killing him? It's just OOC of the highest order for him and it's all done because it's Rey's show, not his and old people don't deserve to be in the spotlight. What a load... I hope he gives Kylo hell as a ghost. I get the whole thing is telling you to let go of the past and look to the new, but what if the new kinda sucks and the past was tonnes better and since TLJ pretty much ends with the same circumstances as it did with TFA it's a moot point anyway, so there's no point...
This is not a 93% movie, at least not in my books. Better than Empire it is not, or Return of the Jedi even. I got more entertainment and better story set up from the prequels (yes, I went there). What's worse is JJ is left in a corner on what the hell to do now. There' hardly any wiggle room for any twists and turns now, but then again making IX have the Resistance meet Boba Fett, who's got his own army and the darksaber now, get his help, defeat the First Order and Vader comes back from the dead to choke Kylo to death would feel similarly jumping the shark as what this movie pulled. It might actually end up a better one than this. What's worse is Disney evidently likes this crud of Rian's to give him a trilogy of his own. Suddenly, I feel I was being hard on Abrams with TFA...
To sum up The Last Jedi, I think it's like shaking a bottle of soda. You wait for it to go bang and it certainly looks like it's going to, only for it to lightly spill over the top instead.
Also, Daisy Ridley just isn't a good actress, or sound nice for that matter...
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Post by bane on Dec 19, 2017 16:14:48 GMT -5
I guess there's some disagreement over whether Daisy Ridley is doing a good job. A lot of people are praising her.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 19, 2017 16:29:13 GMT -5
I guess there's some disagreement over whether Daisy Ridley is doing a good job. A lot of people are praising her. I am not sure if it is her acting. I just don't really like her character... She has no real presence. Despite the fact that we spent two movies with her I still don't feel like I know her character. I feel like I know Finn, Kylo and Poe... But Rey is just kind of there. I feel like I know nothing about her. And I don't know if it is her acting or the way Rey is written... I suspect the latter. |
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I guess they're the handful of students that Luke said Kylo took with him.
I can't see them killing Chewbacca, R2, or Threepio, but then again, I didn't think Disney would have it in them to kill Luke, at least not until Episode IX. 
it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 