|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 15:42:47 GMT -5
EU expands upon what has already been made. In a way, TCW is EU, because it expands upon the films like the comics do. But TCW was made by George Lucas so it's still part of "his universe", the rest of the EU isn't. And yet still Leland Chee and George Lucas would be aware of that story and would have approved it one way or another. To me it goes (pretty similar to the actual way Leland CHee and GL categorise it): Movies TCW Comics that don't contradict anything above them and don't contradict previous things (Like Kessel) and other games and books Comics that contradict some things but aren't fully non canon Non-canon stuff Detours canon |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 15:54:32 GMT -5
I think there's one thing we can agree on is that this talk about what is and is not canon is not really relevant, so anyway let's take a tally.
Malgus supporters like this comment
|
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 15:54:42 GMT -5
Vader Supporters like this comment
|
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 16:34:43 GMT -5
Vader would never have been able to kill Sidious in combat. He just caught him off guard and threw him in a random hole. That doesn't take much skill. But still Sidious would destroy Malgus. And with Vader only slightly weaker I say that Vader could best Malgus easily. Vader beats Magus in: 1. Lightsaber Abilities 2. Endurance 3. Skill in fighting And Vader has beaten numerous Jedi Masters whereas Malgus got stomped by Staele Shan Endurance is debatable. We have no real idea of what Malgus is capable of. "Skill in fighting" is an opinion. Staele Shan wasn't just some Jedi master, she was a powerful GRAND Master. And anyway, she only survived because of Jace Malcolm and his grenade. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 16:39:08 GMT -5
But still Sidious would destroy Malgus. And with Vader only slightly weaker I say that Vader could best Malgus easily. Vader beats Magus in: 1. Lightsaber Abilities 2. Endurance 3. Skill in fighting And Vader has beaten numerous Jedi Masters whereas Malgus got stomped by Staele Shan Endurance is debatable. We have no real idea of what Malgus is capable of. "Skill in fighting" is an opinion. Staele Shan wasn't just some Jedi master, she was a powerful GRAND Master. And anyway, she only survived because of Jace Malcolm and his grenade. 1. Endurance is not debatable, Vader survived being burnt by lava and having limbs cut off 2. At the time Shan was a knight 3. Skill in fighting is not a matter of opinion really, Vader wins because of his personally specialised form and the fact that he killed 8 Jedi at once plus lots of other Jedi along the way ( Between EP3 -EP4) without assistance. Does Malgus ever show lightsaber skill on this level? No |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 16:45:30 GMT -5
Endurance is debatable. We have no real idea of what Malgus is capable of. "Skill in fighting" is an opinion. Staele Shan wasn't just some Jedi master, she was a powerful GRAND Master. And anyway, she only survived because of Jace Malcolm and his grenade. 1. Endurance is not debatable, Vader survived being burnt by lava and having limbs cut off 2. At the time Shan was a knight 3. Skill in fighting is not a matter of opinion really, Vader wins because of his personally specialised form and the fact that he killed 8 Jedi at once plus lots of other Jedi along the way ( Between EP3 -EP4) without assistance. Does Malgus ever show lightsaber skill on this level? No 1. And Malgus survived a grenade to the face and a force push into a rock wall. You're point? 2. Luke was a Knight when he defeated Vader. 3. And Malgus killed numerous Jedi on his assault on the Jedi temple. He would have killed even more if he didn't pursue one Jedi over others throughout the fight. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:48:29 GMT -5
1. Endurance is not debatable, Vader survived being burnt by lava and having limbs cut off 2. At the time Shan was a knight 3. Skill in fighting is not a matter of opinion really, Vader wins because of his personally specialised form and the fact that he killed 8 Jedi at once plus lots of other Jedi along the way ( Between EP3 -EP4) without assistance. Does Malgus ever show lightsaber skill on this level? No 1. And Malgus survived a grenade to the face and a force push into a rock wall. You're point? 2. Luke was a Knight when he defeated Vader. 3. And Malgus killed numerous Jedi on his assault on the Jedi temple. He would have killed even more if he didn't pursue one Jedi over others throughout the fight. Luke wasn't even a knight. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 16:49:07 GMT -5
1. Endurance is not debatable, Vader survived being burnt by lava and having limbs cut off 2. At the time Shan was a knight 3. Skill in fighting is not a matter of opinion really, Vader wins because of his personally specialised form and the fact that he killed 8 Jedi at once plus lots of other Jedi along the way ( Between EP3 -EP4) without assistance. Does Malgus ever show lightsaber skill on this level? No 1. And Malgus survived a grenade to the face and a force push into a rock wall. You're point? 2. Luke was a Knight when he defeated Vader. 3. And Malgus killed numerous Jedi on his assault on the Jedi temple. He would have killed even more if he didn't pursue one Jedi over others throughout the fight. 1. Malgus' endurance is completely pitiful next to Vader's. Vader also survived Palpys lightning at pointblank range and survived the power of two electrical pylons and Marek's lightning 2. Luke was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time, he could learn much more rapidly than all previous Jedi and could mirror combat skills (like in ROTJ) 3. With lots of help from Dark Jedi, even when Malgus fought on his own, it was mostly padawans and the Jedi Master he killed probably used Niman, weakest form of them all. |
|
|
|
Post by Namialus on Jan 3, 2014 16:50:12 GMT -5
For those of you saying Vader isn't skilled because he lost to Luke, I think you're failing to remember that Luke was his son. Of course Vader isn't going to hurt him.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:52:11 GMT -5
1. And Malgus survived a grenade to the face and a force push into a rock wall. You're point? 2. Luke was a Knight when he defeated Vader. 3. And Malgus killed numerous Jedi on his assault on the Jedi temple. He would have killed even more if he didn't pursue one Jedi over others throughout the fight. 1. Malgus' endurance is completely pitiful next to Vader's. Vader also survived Palpys lightning at pointblank range and survived the power of two electrical pylons and Marek's lightning 2. Luke was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time, he could learn much more rapidly than all previous Jedi and could mirror combat skills (like in ROTJ) 3. With lots of help from Dark Jedi, even when Malgus fought on his own, it was mostly padawans and the Jedi Master he killed probably used Niman, weakest form of them all. 1. You don't know. Just because Malgus never fell in lava and lost all his limbs doesn't mean his endurance is pitiful. He just never got in that situation (perhaps because he's a better fighter?) 2. Gifted or not, he had way too little training and was clearly no match for the Emperor. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:52:38 GMT -5
For those of you saying Vader isn't skilled because he lost to Luke, I think you're failing to remember that Luke was his son. Of course Vader isn't going to hurt him. Is that why he cut off his hand? |
|
|
|
Post by Namialus on Jan 3, 2014 16:54:34 GMT -5
For those of you saying Vader isn't skilled because he lost to Luke, I think you're failing to remember that Luke was his son. Of course Vader isn't going to hurt him. Is that why he cut off his hand? Yes, he never dealt a mortal wound. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 16:55:18 GMT -5
1. Malgus' endurance is completely pitiful next to Vader's. Vader also survived Palpys lightning at pointblank range and survived the power of two electrical pylons and Marek's lightning 2. Luke was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time, he could learn much more rapidly than all previous Jedi and could mirror combat skills (like in ROTJ) 3. With lots of help from Dark Jedi, even when Malgus fought on his own, it was mostly padawans and the Jedi Master he killed probably used Niman, weakest form of them all. 1. You don't know. Just because Malgus never fell in lava and lost all his limbs doesn't mean his endurance is pitiful. He just never got in that situation ( perhaps because he's a better fighter?)2. Gifted or not, he had way too little training and was clearly no match for the Emperor. 1. Completely false. Anakin was arrogant and overestimated his abilities, he could easily beat Obi Wan in a drawn out duel but took a stupid risk. Malgus probably would have done something similar. 2. With little training, he could defeat a Sith Lord, which proves that Luke is one of the greatest Jedi of all time |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:55:21 GMT -5
Is that why he cut off his hand? Yes, he never dealt a mortal wound. Neither did Luke. But he still defeated Vader. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:57:04 GMT -5
1. You don't know. Just because Malgus never fell in lava and lost all his limbs doesn't mean his endurance is pitiful. He just never got in that situation ( perhaps because he's a better fighter?)2. Gifted or not, he had way too little training and was clearly no match for the Emperor. 1. Completely false. Anakin was arrogant and overestimated his abilities, he could easily beat Obi Wan in a drawn out duel but took a stupid risk. Malgus probably would have done something similar. 2. With little training, he could defeat a Sith Lord, which proves that Luke is one of the greatest Jedi of all time 1. Still. To get back to the original point, Malgus never had to suffer as much as Vader but that doesn't mean he couldn't endure the pain. I think both can stand much pain. 2. Or it proves Vader is a bad Sith Lord... |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 16:57:17 GMT -5
Yes, he never dealt a mortal wound. Neither did Luke. But he still defeated Vader. Maybe the fact the Luke was one of the greatest, most gifted Jedi of all time might have helped? Luke would have trashed Malgus. He would mirror Malgus' abilities and beat him. |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 16:57:21 GMT -5
1. And Malgus survived a grenade to the face and a force push into a rock wall. You're point? 2. Luke was a Knight when he defeated Vader. 3. And Malgus killed numerous Jedi on his assault on the Jedi temple. He would have killed even more if he didn't pursue one Jedi over others throughout the fight. 1. Malgus' endurance is completely pitiful next to Vader's. Vader also survived Palpys lightning at pointblank range and survived the power of two electrical pylons and Marek's lightning 2. Luke was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time, he could learn much more rapidly than all previous Jedi and could mirror combat skills (like in ROTJ) 3. With lots of help from Dark Jedi, even when Malgus fought on his own, it was mostly padawans and the Jedi Master he killed probably used Niman, weakest form of them all. 1. We have never really been given an example of either of their endurance. 2. To put in in your words, "Staele Shan was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time" as well. 3. Many of them were masters. I've read the book in which this fight took place. You have absolutely no idea if he used Niman or not. |
|
|
|
Post by Namialus on Jan 3, 2014 16:58:28 GMT -5
Yes, he never dealt a mortal wound. Neither did Luke. But he still defeated Vader. But this isn't someone like Mace Windu - Vader never hated Luke. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:58:48 GMT -5
Neither did Luke. But he still defeated Vader. Maybe the fact the Luke was one of the greatest, most gifted Jedi of all time might have helped? Luke would have trashed Malgus. He would mirror Malgus' abilities and beat him. Luke would not beat Malgus. Luke wouldn't beat any good Sith, except Vader because his suit limits him so much. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 16:59:14 GMT -5
1. Completely false. Anakin was arrogant and overestimated his abilities, he could easily beat Obi Wan in a drawn out duel but took a stupid risk. Malgus probably would have done something similar. 2. With little training, he could defeat a Sith Lord, which proves that Luke is one of the greatest Jedi of all time 1. Still. To get back to the original point, Malgus never had to suffer as much as Vader but that doesn't mean he couldn't endure the pain. I think both can stand much pain. 2. Or it proves Vader is a bad Sith Lord... 1. Perhaps, but I think Vader could endure more due to his past feats 2. Whoa. This means that Malgus is like one of the worst sith ever. Vader probably killed about double the Jedi Malgus did and developed his own saber form and forcepowers. Stuff that Malgus never done. |
|
|
|
Post by Pinda on Jan 3, 2014 16:59:29 GMT -5
Neither did Luke. But he still defeated Vader. But this isn't someone like Mace Windu - Vader never hated Luke. So? He could still have Force pushed Luke somewhere, or cut off his hand again. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 17:01:43 GMT -5
1. Malgus' endurance is completely pitiful next to Vader's. Vader also survived Palpys lightning at pointblank range and survived the power of two electrical pylons and Marek's lightning 2. Luke was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time, he could learn much more rapidly than all previous Jedi and could mirror combat skills (like in ROTJ) 3. With lots of help from Dark Jedi, even when Malgus fought on his own, it was mostly padawans and the Jedi Master he killed probably used Niman, weakest form of them all. 1. We have never really been given an example of either of their endurance. 2. To put in in your words, "Staele Shan was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time" as well. 3. Many of them were masters. I've read the book in which this fight took place. You have absolutely no idea if he used Niman or not. 1. Yes we have. 2. You misunderstand me. Luke Skywalker is the "most gifted Jedi " because he can learn rapidly. He done in weeks what many Jedi don't do in years, perhaps decades. Staele Shan spent much more time training and is not even as good as Luke. 3. No, most of them were padawans waiting to take their trials, there were only a few Masters. And he probably used Niman because he was a negotiator. |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 17:05:39 GMT -5
1. We have never really been given an example of either of their endurance. 2. To put in in your words, "Staele Shan was one of the most gifted Jedi of all time" as well. 3. Many of them were masters. I've read the book in which this fight took place. You have absolutely no idea if he used Niman or not. 1. Yes we have. 2. You misunderstand me. Luke Skywalker is the "most gifted Jedi " because he can learn rapidly. He done in weeks what many Jedi don't do in years, perhaps decades. Staele Shan spent much more time training and is not even as good as Luke. 3. No, most of them were padawans waiting to take their trials, there were only a few Masters. And he probably used Niman because he was a negotiator. 1. What, then? 2. Okay, Luke was a gifted Jedi. Staele Shan was as well. 3. And how do you know any of this? |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 17:06:57 GMT -5
1. Yes we have. 2. You misunderstand me. Luke Skywalker is the "most gifted Jedi " because he can learn rapidly. He done in weeks what many Jedi don't do in years, perhaps decades. Staele Shan spent much more time training and is not even as good as Luke. 3. No, most of them were padawans waiting to take their trials, there were only a few Masters. And he probably used Niman because he was a negotiator. 1. What, then? 2. Okay, Luke was a gifted Jedi. Staele Shan was as well. 3. And how do you know any of this? 1. GAH, I've said them already 2. Steale Shan was nowhere near the level of Luke 3. In the Deceived novel, Malgus only faced the serious threat of Master Zen Vallow and some Jedi Knights, the rest were the more trained Jedi Padawans about to take the trials, the novel itself states this, the Temple was practically empty as far as serious competition goes. |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 17:09:20 GMT -5
1. What, then? 2. Okay, Luke was a gifted Jedi. Staele Shan was as well. 3. And how do you know any of this? 1. GAH, I've said them already 2. Steale Shan was nowhere near the level of Luke 3. In the Deceived novel, Malgus only faced the serious threat of Master Zen Vallow and several Jedi Knights, the rest were the more trained Jedi Padawans about to take the trials, the novel itself states this, the Temple was practically empty as far as serious competition goes. 1. Okay then, whatever. 2. Opinion. 3. I don't remember it that way. I remember that there were a fair amount of Masters present. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 17:12:46 GMT -5
1. GAH, I've said them already 2. Steale Shan was nowhere near the level of Luke 3. In the Deceived novel, Malgus only faced the serious threat of Master Zen Vallow and several Jedi Knights, the rest were the more trained Jedi Padawans about to take the trials, the novel itself states this, the Temple was practically empty as far as serious competition goes. 1. Okay then, whatever. 2. Opinion. 3. I don't remember it that way. I remember that there were a fair amount of Masters present. 1. I literally said them a few posts back 2. No. Staele took many years to become a skilled Jedi, Luke only took a few years. Luke could mirror abilities, this accelerated his learning (he does this in ROTJ) and he has a much stronger affinity with the force, being the son of the Chosen One after all. 3. Don't get me wrong, there were some Jedi Masters, but compared to the number of knights and padawans, there weren't that many. |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 17:19:18 GMT -5
1. Okay then, whatever. 2. Opinion. 3. I don't remember it that way. I remember that there were a fair amount of Masters present. 1. I literally said them a few posts back 2. No. Staele took many years to become a skilled Jedi, Luke only took a few years. Luke could mirror abilities, this accelerated his learning (he does this in ROTJ) and he has a much stronger affinity with the force, being the son of the Chosen One after all. 3. Don't get me wrong, there were some Jedi Masters, but compared to the number of knights and padawans, there weren't that many. 1. The whole lava thing? Yes, we already talked about that. They both have very strong endurance. 2. I have no idea what you mean by "mirror abilities." And Staele Shan took longer to become a Knight because it takes longer to cultivate a stable balance of emotion. Why do you think Luke got so angry when fighting Vader? 3.We don't... honestly know that. The book wasn't very specific. |
|
|
|
Post by bobafett590 on Jan 3, 2014 17:23:46 GMT -5
1. I literally said them a few posts back 2. No. Staele took many years to become a skilled Jedi, Luke only took a few years. Luke could mirror abilities, this accelerated his learning (he does this in ROTJ) and he has a much stronger affinity with the force, being the son of the Chosen One after all. 3. Don't get me wrong, there were some Jedi Masters, but compared to the number of knights and padawans, there weren't that many. 1. The whole lava thing? Yes, we already talked about that. They both have very strong endurance. 2. I have no idea what you mean by "mirror abilities." And Staele Shan took longer to become a Knight because it takes longer to cultivate a stable balance of emotion. Why do you think Luke got so angry when fighting Vader? 3.We don't... honestly know that. The book wasn't very specific. 1. Grenade in the face doesn't compare much to burning in lava and getting electrocuted by two pylons and numerous other things Vader has survived 2. Luke mirrored Vader's abilities in ROTJ on the Death Star when fighting him and copied some of his style 3. Fair enough, but there weren't more Masters than Padawans definitely |
|
|
|
Post by Potato on Jan 3, 2014 17:27:01 GMT -5
I agree that the discussion about what's canon and what's not is irrelevant. Since Vader's cybernetics slow him down, I'm pretty sure his lightsaber ability is lessened so when Vader blocks one of Malgus' attacks, Malgus could strike at Vader somewhere else quicker than Vader can react... But surely since Vader is stronger in the Force he could sense what was going to happen next and plan ahead somehow... You can't plan ahead in the middle of a duel. A second of delay and you could be killed. Vader's slow because of his suit and has nowhere near the amount of capabilities he could have had. Apparently it weren't just clones. There were people like The Son that helped him. Most Jedi died because of Order 66 which was mostly done by huge amounts of clones with the element of surprise to their advantage. Vader and Sudious knew what had to be done to become all powerful. Malgus and his sith did not. And Vader still hunted down many of the Jedi as well, that's canon still, is it not? Vader hunted down the jedi, yes, but it wasn't too difficult. The jedi were hiding from him because the Emperor already did all the heavy lifting. Vader just had to find the jedi while he was on the dominant, unchallenged side. Malgus is in a scenario where he's in a war where it could really go either way. Both sides are on the offensive and defensive so he's more prepared for different types of attacks. He's also seen much more combat than Vader. For those of you saying Vader isn't skilled because he lost to Luke, I think you're failing to remember that Luke was his son. Of course Vader isn't going to hurt him. If Vader's better than Luke then and didn't want to hurt him, he still could have held him back if he was really better. If you lose you lose, there's really no excuse for it. Vader lost to Luke. |
|
|
|
Post by bane on Jan 3, 2014 17:29:41 GMT -5
1. The whole lava thing? Yes, we already talked about that. They both have very strong endurance. 2. I have no idea what you mean by "mirror abilities." And Staele Shan took longer to become a Knight because it takes longer to cultivate a stable balance of emotion. Why do you think Luke got so angry when fighting Vader? 3.We don't... honestly know that. The book wasn't very specific. 1. Grenade in the face doesn't compare much to burning in lava and getting electrocuted by two pylons and numerous other things Vader has survived 2. Luke mirrored Vader's abilities in ROTJ on the Death Star when fighting him and copied some of his style 3. Fair enough, but there weren't more Masters than Padawans definitely 1. He only survived because of Palpatine. That point isn't really valid. 2. And? Copying isn't necessarily a good thing in this situation. For example, Mace Windu basically invented Vapad, and I attribute this to his great skill with a lightsaber. 3. But there were a fair amount. |
|
Wars Story
it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 