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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jun 22, 2022 13:27:41 GMT -5
Okay, much as I loved seed Palps and Qui-Gon back, there are issues. That whole "rematch of the century" would've probably felt more like it if it was dealing with a more cinematic budget, but it doesn't because someone weirdo thought a Kenobi film wasn't a good or financially solid idea. The show just has so many moments of feeling lower rent than it should. Also I have no idea what's up with Reva's motivation with Luke and there's no clarity there. Just feels like a pointless character in the end. And yet watch her get another unasked for spin off lol In the end, much as I liked a lot of it, this should have been a film because it doesn't justify the extra runtime and the cinematic magic just isn't quite there. Also there needed to be more flashbacks.
I will say I did love Obi-Wan's moment with Anakin though. Some nice closure for what it's worth in some way.
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Post by Newan on Jun 22, 2022 15:56:32 GMT -5
So I guess the whole Master/ Learner line in ANH May still be applicable since Vader kinda lost… they added more clarity to some of Vaders ROTJ lines regarding Kenobi in this show.
I guess the only real OT thing that’s a little messed up is Leias transmission to Kenobi in ANH doesn’t make as much sense now.
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 22, 2022 16:52:21 GMT -5
Yeah this shit's non-canon for me.
- Reva is healed and somehow teleported to Tatooine while the refugees are still leaving the planet makes no sense.
- For some reason the Destroyer can't hit the slow ass damaged transport or use a tractor beam or TIEs just like the stupid chase in TLJ. Then instead of having GI keep pursuing the refugees while Vader follows Obi-Wan in his shuttle or TIE Advanced, he diverts the whole destroyer to follow him.
- If the transport has a hyperdrive equipped drop ship, why couldn't Obi and Leia take that to Alderaan? This was already a problem last episode when they did the stupid decoy ship thing after setting up only one ship
- Fight was not that impressive. More shaky cam and darkness so you can't see anything. More plagiarism, this time from the Ahsoka/Vader fight from Rebels. Literally the same Vader line. Obi-Wan finally has a chance to kill Anakin for good and still doesn't take it.
- Vader still bitching to Palpatine about finding Kenobi and killing him when he's had like 20 opportunities to do so in the past week. Palpatine says to just let it go and then Vader's immediately like ok.
- Obi-Wan didn't even take Leia home. He just has some stranger do it off screen
- Thought we were gonna get a nice Obi-Wan Luke moment but he just fucking says "Hello There". Nah fuck that shitty fan service
- Canon breaking Qui-Gon ghost. Such a tacked on scene with lame dialogue
This whole thing was such garbage. The duels were a pointless waste of time. We already know no one dies. And the one person that should've died, Reva, doesn't. They didn't expand the characters of Vader and Kenobi nor did they create new interesting characters. The "rematch of the century" did not come anywhere close to the quality of the Mustafar duel. All they accomplished was breaking canon, making ANH not make sense, and plagiarizing better content. Even the BOBF guys didn't screw up this badly. Bro I'm so mad rn.
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 22, 2022 17:00:35 GMT -5
I'll do ratings now that is over. But they may change after I binge the show at some point
1. 8/10
2. 7/10
3. 5/10
4. 4/10
5. 6.5/10
6. 6.5/10
Also I feel like a season 2 could still be on the table if they really want to do it and there isn't enough of a negative reaction to dissuade them. This ep felt like it was setting up more Obi-Wan planet hopping adventures... I neither want season 2 nor a Reva spin off. Just fuck off Disney.
One of the only parts of this show I truly enjoyed was Owen and Beru. They needed way more sceeen time. Give me a show about them
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 22, 2022 19:20:01 GMT -5
Watched the finale again and it kinda bothers me Obi-Wan never personally delivered Leia to Alderaan. And then the fact he goes there later, leaving Tatooine and Luke after what just happened… But the last few scenes Obi and Leia have together are really nice and wholesome. I love some of their interactions they’re really good and one of the other things I actually like from the show. I wish we saw similar interactions with young Luke but whatever.
But then Obi’s way too chill and upbeat at the end. Stealing a comment from reddit but he’s walking into the sunset acting like he accomplished something lol. Vader’s still alive and he kinda failed his mission to protect Luke and bring back Leia. Like they are fine but no thanks to him
Whatever one more thing I really liked was Hayden’s voice after his helmet breaks. It was actually chilling when he says “You didn’t kill Anakin, I did.” and it looks like he even smiles when he says that. I feel like it’s not realistic for Vader to lose to Obi-Wan but idk. I think they made Obi a little too strong here. Maybe Vader should’ve lost because of his arrogance again, which also continues the theme from the last episode. Actually I feel like that’s kind of an interesting concept where Obi and Vader fight multiple times but every time, Obi can’t bring himself to kill his padawan and Vader just can’t beat his master because he overestimates himself and his arrogance blinds him. Until ANH where he only wins because Obi lets him
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Post by Newan on Jun 22, 2022 20:06:08 GMT -5
Watched the finale again and it kinda bothers me Obi-Wan never personally delivered Leia to Alderaan. And then the fact he goes there later, leaving Tatooine and Luke after what just happened… But the last few scenes Obi and Leia have together are really nice and wholesome. I love some of their interactions they’re really good and one of the other things I actually like from the show. I wish we saw similar interactions with young Luke but whatever. But then Obi’s way too chill and upbeat at the end. Stealing a comment from reddit but he’s walking into the sunset acting like he accomplished something lol. Vader’s still alive and he kinda failed his mission to protect Luke and bring back Leia. Like they are fine but no thanks to him Whatever one more thing I really liked was Hayden’s voice after his helmet breaks. It was actually chilling when he says “You didn’t kill Anakin, I did.” and it looks like he even smiles when he says that. I feel like it’s not realistic for Vader to lose to Obi-Wan but idk. I think they made Obi a little too strong here. Maybe Vader should’ve lost because of his arrogance again, which also continues the theme from the last episode. Actually I feel like that’s kind of an interesting concept where Obi and Vader fight multiple times but every time, Obi can’t bring himself to kill his padawan and Vader just can’t beat his master because he overestimates himself and his arrogance blinds him. Until ANH where he only wins because Obi lets him I watched it again as well and I liked it better the second time… this honestly might be one of those things like the prequels where over time it’s reception will be better. Things I Liked: - Owen and Beru were awesome - Honestly I kinda liked how Kenobi and Vader are portrayed. It’s clear Vader is stronger in the force for sure but Kenobi still has his swordsmanship which is accurate. Kenobi has always been a pretty average Jedi when it comes to force power, but his skill as a duelist is what makes him great. Whereas Anakin and Vader are two entirely separate things, in the suit he can’t move like Anakin at all. - The Vader and Kenobi final confrontation was cool but no way could Kenobi bring himself to kill Anakin - Basically everything after Revas last scene is pretty top tier. Leia’s change in character is shown through her wardrobe alone. The interaction between her parents and Kenobi are both great. The final scenes on Tatooine were also pretty cool. And honestly I can excuse the Qui-Gon ghost thing, I actually think it’s better this way. Or maybe they will say it’s only possible for Kenobi cause of his strong connection to Qui-Gon?? Idk but I can let that one slide tbh. - Palpatine cameo and the final scene on Mustafar with the music was great Essentially if you take out Revas scenes entirely not only is the finale actually kinda decent but the entire show is better as well… she really does serve no purpose. |
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Post by Newan on Jun 22, 2022 20:11:01 GMT -5
My final rankings:
Part 1: 7/10
Part 2: 6/10
Part 3: 6/10
Part 4: 4/10
Part 5: 8/10
Part 6: 7/10
I think the final ranking would in somewhere between a 6 and 7… idk there’s parts that are honestly really cool and then there’s just stupid stuff aka mostly third sister. BoBF is better though and both are worse then Mando by far.
Well we got Andor coming up in 2 months, honestly I think that show is gonna be very good. Although I kinda expect a slower first season and a packed second season. I just get that vibe from the way they are delivering it in two 12 episode seasons.
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Post by Newan on Jun 22, 2022 20:25:26 GMT -5
Also let’s mention that Fifth Brother and especially Fourth Sister were incredibly useless…
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jun 23, 2022 13:00:28 GMT -5
Watched the finale again and it kinda bothers me Obi-Wan never personally delivered Leia to Alderaan. And then the fact he goes there later, leaving Tatooine and Luke after what just happened… But the last few scenes Obi and Leia have together are really nice and wholesome. I love some of their interactions they’re really good and one of the other things I actually like from the show. I wish we saw similar interactions with young Luke but whatever. But then Obi’s way too chill and upbeat at the end. Stealing a comment from reddit but he’s walking into the sunset acting like he accomplished something lol. Vader’s still alive and he kinda failed his mission to protect Luke and bring back Leia. Like they are fine but no thanks to him Whatever one more thing I really liked was Hayden’s voice after his helmet breaks. It was actually chilling when he says “You didn’t kill Anakin, I did.” and it looks like he even smiles when he says that. I feel like it’s not realistic for Vader to lose to Obi-Wan but idk. I think they made Obi a little too strong here. Maybe Vader should’ve lost because of his arrogance again, which also continues the theme from the last episode. Actually I feel like that’s kind of an interesting concept where Obi and Vader fight multiple times but every time, Obi can’t bring himself to kill his padawan and Vader just can’t beat his master because he overestimates himself and his arrogance blinds him. Until ANH where he only wins because Obi lets him I think that, though it came with a heavy cost, those nuggets of goodness like the flashback, Vader's final words to Obi-Wan made the ride worth it, though I'm pretty annoyed this didn't leave me absolutely blown away like I wanted. They really should have cut Reva, made it a film and doubled down on Obi-Wan and Vader as they both kind of ruminate on their relationship. Would've made it more personal and fun. Also, much as I like seeing Qui-Gon, there's no emotional pay off in the way it's played. It's a bit flat is what I mean. |
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Post by Star on Jun 23, 2022 13:33:11 GMT -5
I think the finale was a pretty decent episode by itself, but when you look at it alongside the rest of the series, it further reveals how uneven and mediocre Kenobi was. There were lots of interesting creative choices I enjoyed, some significant and others minor. Yet there were other decisions made that just didn't work that well, even down to the forgettable music and nauseating cinematography. The writing, at least for me, is where you can really see how rocky this series ended up being.
There are plenty of ways that the writers could have taken this story, some of which likely would've been better, but I won't complain too much about the direction they picked. The plot we got though was bafflingly average, and it seemed like the writers were unsure how to coherently connect a few cool ideas. In Part 6, it's clear the writers want to give us Vader vs Obi-Wan one more time, but they struggle on how to logically get us to that point. Part 3 has a similar issue with Leia's capture and Obi-Wan's rescue, making both important moments in the storyline seem contrived.
In some ways, I'm reminded of Game of Thrones. Characters rapidly travel from place to place without any sense of elapsed time. Reva's sudden arrival on Tatooine is probably the worst instance of this. I'm sure there are ways to explain it, like maybe Vader was chasing the rebels for a prolonged period akin to Ep. 5 with the Falcon. But I don't think we got anything in the episode to indicate this, so it leaves audiences confused and frustrated.
It's apparent that this show's plot stemmed from a single movie and the writers struggled to justify a 6 episode runtime. Some parts were bloated or unnecessary, which likely added to the issues in stitching together the core ideas. And instead of using the extra screen time to insert more content for a compelling character study on Obi-Wan's grief and regret, it rehashes simple tropes from Star Wars - planet hopping adventures, chase scenes, and rescue missions. These aren't inherently bad to include, but it's definitely overused in this franchise, especially when focusing on characters whose fates we already know.
Ultimately, that might be my biggest issue with this series and Star Wars moving forward. Disney squeezes in those basic story beats, while also leaning too hard into legacy characters and pre-existing lore. I'm guessing it's because 1) it's what they think fans want most and 2) it seems easier to execute than crafting entirely new stories, lore, and characters. As much as it's fun to see Vader and Obi-Wan duel here, it's not the most compelling no matter how much emotional depth they provide. This is why Mando is the best of the D+ shows; it's largely free from years of fan expectations and the baggage of being linked to previous stories. I think that's the direction Star Wars needs to keep pushing toward in order to be successful.
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Post by Star on Jun 23, 2022 13:38:26 GMT -5
Ok so even though I was critiquing a lot in that previous post, I still enjoyed Kenobi. I'm mostly irritated by the fact that while I liked the majority of it, there was definitely the potential for it to be much greater. I felt similarly with BoBF, but again that one is weirder to think about when Mando takes over the last few episodes. I'd give the show a 6 or 7 out of 10, really depends on how it ages.
Some things I really liked...
- seeing the probe droids sent out
- Vader's half mask and voice (don't love that it takes this from Rebels, but I can't deny it's very well done even down to the lighting)
- Vader defeating Reva and pretty much anything that showed his Force powers/strength
- Obi-Wan's comments to Leia about her parents
- Daiyu as a new location
- flashbacks to Obi-Wan/Anakin and how they paralleled events in the show
- Qui Gon and Palpatine (felt a little shoehorned but I think I'd be annoyed if they didn't show up)
My major complaints...
- Reva's story not being fleshed out/compelling enough (if this had been better, I think it would've minimized many of the show's problems)
- the headache-inducing shaky camera
- the Inquisitors all feeling useless
- not a single original character was interesting except maybe Freck lol somehow he felt more fleshed out
- why did Vader commit the entire Star Destroyer to Kenobi and why weren't there TIE Fighters
- Part 1 chase scene with Leia was poorly choreographed
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Post by Star on Jun 23, 2022 13:43:38 GMT -5
It's tough to judge how this show adds or detracts from lines/moments in the OT. Some of the ones that come to mind...
- Obi-Wan calling Anakin "Darth" in Ep. 4
- Leia's comments in ROTJ about remembering their parents more than Luke
- Leia not reacting to Obi-Wan's death the way Luke does
- Luke's ability to not kill Vader and bring him back to the light
- Owen and Beru's deaths... I guess they were ambushed but the finale made them pretty competent fighters
- the learner/master line from Vader in Ep. 4
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Post by Star on Jun 23, 2022 13:51:25 GMT -5
I think instead of trying to reinvent the classic Star Wars tropes of rescues, chases, etc we need genre movies/stories told within the universe. They don't even necessarily have to be set outside the Skywalker Saga to be good, as long as the characters are original. Rogue One showed us that can work and it went for the war genre.
Like honestly a crime film focused on the Outer Rim or Underworld of Coruscant, a horror story with the Force, a bounty hunter heist narrative... don't really count Solo since that revolved around an original character. Even Mando is kind of doing this with its Western theme, and most people seem to like that.
There's lots of ways Disney could go with its storytelling, but these feel like easy ways to get ideas rolling.
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 23, 2022 17:41:57 GMT -5
Essentially if you take out Revas scenes entirely not only is the finale actually kinda decent but the entire show is better as well… she really does serve no purpose. It was annoying when they kept cutting from the duel to Reva shenanigans like no one cares lol. There were cuts in the Mapuzo fight too and of course even ROTS cuts between Mustafar and the senate chamber. I really wanted the main duel in this show to not have any intercutting scenes, I think it's a lot better and more immersive when it's just one linear moment. Also let’s mention that Fifth Brother and especially Fourth Sister were incredibly useless… I completely forgot about them. Wonder if Fifth Brother at least should've gotten a final scene. He was kind of a clown though... Fourth Sister seemed like the only competent one but she didn't do much. It's tough to judge how this show adds or detracts from lines/moments in the OT. Some of the ones that come to mind... - Obi-Wan calling Anakin "Darth" in Ep. 4 - Leia's comments in ROTJ about remembering their parents more than Luke - Leia not reacting to Obi-Wan's death the way Luke does - Luke's ability to not kill Vader and bring him back to the light - Owen and Beru's deaths... I guess they were ambushed but the finale made them pretty competent fighters - the learner/master line from Vader in Ep. 4 I've seen people point out it now doesn't make sense for Kenobi and Yoda to be pushing Luke to kill Vader if Obi-Wan can overpower him. More and more Luke's significance feels like it's getting diminished. Like from what we've seen Obi-Wan and Ahsoka could just clap Vader and Palpatine and end the Empire like a decade early I think instead of trying to reinvent the classic Star Wars tropes of rescues, chases, etc we need genre movies/stories told within the universe. They don't even necessarily have to be set outside the Skywalker Saga to be good, as long as the characters are original. Rogue One showed us that can work and it went for the war genre. Like honestly a crime film focused on the Outer Rim or Underworld of Coruscant, a horror story with the Force, a bounty hunter heist narrative... don't really count Solo since that revolved around an original character. Even Mando is kind of doing this with its Western theme, and most people seem to like that. There's lots of ways Disney could go with its storytelling, but these feel like easy ways to get ideas rolling. That's not a bad idea and pretty on brand. RO is a war movie like you said, Mandalorian is a western, AOTC is noir, ROTS is like a Greek tragedy. Kinda works and is interesting. Might get overdone at some point but still I think that'd be a pretty cool way to make Star Wars |
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Post by Newan on Jun 24, 2022 18:23:00 GMT -5
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Post by Newan on Jun 24, 2022 18:24:43 GMT -5
Honestly I wish Grand Inquisitor was more involved but I wanted him portrayed more like Rebels though…
Rebels GI and Vader doing shit together would be cool
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Post by Newan on Jun 24, 2022 18:27:37 GMT -5
I think instead of trying to reinvent the classic Star Wars tropes of rescues, chases, etc we need genre movies/stories told within the universe. They don't even necessarily have to be set outside the Skywalker Saga to be good, as long as the characters are original. Rogue One showed us that can work and it went for the war genre. Like honestly a crime film focused on the Outer Rim or Underworld of Coruscant, a horror story with the Force, a bounty hunter heist narrative... don't really count Solo since that revolved around an original character. Even Mando is kind of doing this with its Western theme, and most people seem to like that. There's lots of ways Disney could go with its storytelling, but these feel like easy ways to get ideas rolling. I honestly wanted Solo sequels tbh… more to see Maul and Qi’ra. I really want a Disney plus series with Maul in it. |
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Post by Newan on Jun 24, 2022 18:32:57 GMT -5
Just doing a little look at the TV/ Movie content Disney has released I would probably rank it something like:
The Mandalorian
Rogue One
Rebels
Solo
The Bad Batch
Book of Boba Fett
Kenobi
The Force Awakens
Rise of Skywalker
The Last Jedi
Resistance (Honestly I watched 3 episodes and just didn’t like it)
Honestly Rebels isn’t THAT bad… it’s story and characters are pretty consistent and there’s nothing really lore breaking/ retconning in Rebels. It actually sticks to its Star Wars roots quite well and doesn’t try audacious risks like the sequels or some other shows.
Not sure if it’s fair to count TCW season 7 in this list, although technically season 6 also released post Disney takeover so maybe I should.
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Post by Newan on Jun 24, 2022 18:37:13 GMT -5
Mando benefits highly from having more content then most of that list though but it’s also just the most polished show and from the looks of things there’s gonna be a mini kinda MCU or Arrowverse with the post ROTJ shows.
Objectively… TFA is probably better then some of the stuff above it. It was safe and had a decent enough story, however I’d rather watch the stuff higher on the list tbh
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 1, 2022 15:00:43 GMT -5
This shit makes me laugh so much I can't stop watching different variations of it lmao. GI was so goofy in this and I honestly loved it. I wanted to see him use the helicopter lightsaber
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Post by Newan on Jul 2, 2022 18:28:19 GMT -5
I had the weirdest dream while napping of a live action show that the episode started with something to do with Kenobi and Vader but at some point it ends up on Vaders destroyer and he’s talking to the Emperor over the Holo about a mission. Vader ends up dispatching Grand Inquisitor in his place to continue the hunt for Kenobi, however it eventually turns into GI fighting Maul for some reason and at the end of the episode right before the credits roll it showed Vaders tie fighter returning to Mortis. Oh and it was the Rebels version of GI in live action and not the weird fat boy lol.
I just thought about it and all that together is something DF would do like his tons of cameos in his BoBF episode lol. Although it kinda makes me think that Vader would have likely told the Emperor of Mortis?? I wonder what his reaction would be to that…
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it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 