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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 14:13:25 GMT -5
He has the name Skywalker and he's been a Jedi now for 30 years... Don't need anything to tell, he's going to be powerful He failed to prevent his students from turning to the darkside... so he has to be lacking in some fields at least. And? That means Obi-Wan and Yoda are failures as well
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 14:16:16 GMT -5
This ranking was present in a recently released SW factbook laying down some canon facts about SW (source: Everything you need to Know about SW). Factbooks have consistently really been the only things where we can find out the abilities of characters because they're usually unbiased. Factbooks or quotes from SW executives like GL (or of course stuff in movie/novelizations) But this is so wrong and the only ranking contradicted by new SW writers is 3 & 4 because the Sons of Dathomir author said Maul "isn't...even at Dooku's level" (link). So I guess it isn't so bad..... (although that even could be disputed)
But the biggest, most eye-watering mistake on there has yet to be corrected. Vader better with a saber than Palpy? I think not. Palpy is number one in most if not all departments of Sith-Lording... Everything else could actually be up for debate though (which is why putting out official lists just causes confusion and should be avoided.) I'm pretty sure this will be corrected soon but as it stands Vader is canonically a better Saber user than Palpy..... . I think Vader actually is a better duelist then Sidious. Vaders entire focus is on the lightsaber so all his time is spent perfecting that. And Maul above Dooku? Yeah LOLOL. Ventress isn't very impressive either but shows how weak the canon characters are now
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Post by Potato on Dec 28, 2015 14:20:39 GMT -5
To be fair, Maul in TCW was shown as being really powerful. He was only bested by Sidious. Obi-Wan technically beat him once, but he had to go into rage mode to do it. Dooku in his prime probably would have beat Maul, but in TCW they consistently showed that Dooku's age had slowed him down. So Maul's higher stamina and agility would probably allow him to beat Dooku. That's sort of how Anakin did it in Revenge of the Sith.
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Post by Potato on Dec 28, 2015 14:21:19 GMT -5
I agree that Sidious would kick Vader's butt though. Vader's powers are over exaggerated.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 28, 2015 14:34:56 GMT -5
This ranking was present in a recently released SW factbook laying down some canon facts about SW (source: Everything you need to Know about SW). Factbooks have consistently really been the only things where we can find out the abilities of characters because they're usually unbiased. Factbooks or quotes from SW executives like GL (or of course stuff in movie/novelizations) But this is so wrong and the only ranking contradicted by new SW writers is 3 & 4 because the Sons of Dathomir author said Maul "isn't...even at Dooku's level" (link). So I guess it isn't so bad..... (although that even could be disputed)
But the biggest, most eye-watering mistake on there has yet to be corrected. Vader better with a saber than Palpy? I think not. Palpy is number one in most if not all departments of Sith-Lording... Everything else could actually be up for debate though (which is why putting out official lists just causes confusion and should be avoided.) I'm pretty sure this will be corrected soon but as it stands Vader is canonically a better Saber user than Palpy..... . I think Vader actually is a better duelist then Sidious. Vaders entire focus is on the lightsaber so all his time is spent perfecting that. And Maul above Dooku? Yeah LOLOL. Ventress isn't very impressive either but shows how weak the canon characters are now I´m pretty sure it´s purely about lightsaber combat skills. Sidious would be on top in terms of force skills and Dooku would be ranked second in my opinion.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 28, 2015 14:35:43 GMT -5
He failed to prevent his students from turning to the darkside... so he has to be lacking in some fields at least. And? That means Obi-Wan and Yoda are failures as well Obi-wan kind of is... But Yoda trained hundreds of Jedi that didn't turn evil so... it doesn't mean anything in his case.
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 14:50:25 GMT -5
I think Vader actually is a better duelist then Sidious. Vaders entire focus is on the lightsaber so all his time is spent perfecting that. And Maul above Dooku? Yeah LOLOL. Ventress isn't very impressive either but shows how weak the canon characters are now I´m pretty sure it´s purely about lightsaber combat skills. Sidious would be on top in terms of force skills and Dooku would be ranked second in my opinion. Lightsaber I'd say: 1. Vader 2. Sidious 3. Dooku 4. Maul 5. Savage Vader in his prime with the suit would do well vs Sidious if it was PURE Lightsaber combat only, however Sidious uses the force a lot, that how he ended his duel with Maul so quick. I'd pick Savage over Ventress just because of his immense physical strength. Vader is really strong though as well from his cybernetic parts, he crushed a Magnaguard metal hand with his fist in TCW before he was even Vader. Force Power only: 1. Sidious 2. Dooku 3. Vader 4. Maul 5. Ventress Sidious is obvious number 1, Vader is strong with the force but Dooku has access to more tricks. Universal: 1. Sidious 2. Vader 3. Dooku 4. Maul 5 Ventress
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 14:51:38 GMT -5
The 4/5 of every list is sort of a big drop from the top 3 though...
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 28, 2015 16:55:47 GMT -5
To be fair, Maul in TCW was shown as being really powerful. He was only bested by Sidious. Obi-Wan technically beat him once, but he had to go into rage mode to do it. Dooku in his prime probably would have beat Maul, but in TCW they consistently showed that Dooku's age had slowed him down. So Maul's higher stamina and agility would probably allow him to beat Dooku. That's sort of how Anakin did it in Revenge of the Sith. TCW Maul IMO was actually only shown as a mid-tier Sith in my view and Dooku could beat him a majority of the time. It's not going to be easy but he would do it I believe. The only canon dark side user Maul could beat would probably be Ventress and even she would give him some trouble. Maul was bested solely by Sidious not due to his power or skill but because no-one stronger than Obi-Wan other than Palpy decided to fight Maul. Dooku could have went and fought Maul + Savage and while I shouldn't make assumptions as they aren't valid in discussions like these, I think Dooku would have beaten them eventually with effort. Sidious going was done as a tribute to the late voice actor and because it ended the arc on a cooler note. Also, Sidious might have had a better in-story reason to go because he perceived Maul challenging his plans. It wasn't because he was the only one who could challenge him. And no way was Dooku slow (or getting that much slower) in TCW. Look at this Season 6 performance. Dooku prances around like a cat during duels. And this is him at 82 years old, past his prime. He shows tremendous agility and speed which I think is on par or even exceeds Maul's (consider that he's fighting two opponents here which means twice the effort). In fact his acrobatic and his nimble fighting skill is something he was known for as a Jedi & retained as a Sith. Something we also see in the video is his ability to frequently kick Obi Wan and Anakin during duelling. In most duels stuff like this only happens every now and then but Dooku does it regularly so he can separate his opponents (if he's fighting multiple) or disorientate if he's fighting one. Dooku has been described as having the fitness of some Jedi half his age and he's quite a physically fit old man. Dooku is consistently referred to as one of the most powerful Sith and Jedi of all time in terms of saber combat and force. We are also told that he could outclass nearly all opponents except Yoda at the time of the PT: In ROTS Dooku hadn't grown weaker. Anakin had grown stronger. Even then Dooku performed quite well in the duel incapacitating Obi Wan and putting up a good performance against Anakin. In the novel he is described as shrugging off Anakin's charges in the first half of the duel. It was only when Anakin tapped into his rage when provoked that he defeated and overcame Dooku. Also Anakin used Shien which is a counter to Dooku's form whereas Maul doesn't. This might not make too much of a difference but I think if Maul decided to start using a form he wasn't used to using he would be outclassed quite easily. Dooku's Makashi advantage is not to be underestimated , it's one of the reasons why Sidious targeted Dooku as his apprentice because he knew it would give him a huge advantage in duels. Maul's achievements don't really mean much because they could be achieved by Dooku just as, if not more, easily than Maul achieved them. Maul has killed a few grunt Jedi & Qui Gon . He's put up good performances against Obi-Wan but Dooku usually incapacitates Obi Wan within seconds of combat. His feats don't really put him above Dooku. So Dooku wins, probably between 60 and 80% of the time depending on the conditions. If he taunts Maul and makes him really angry then Maul could win because then his strength might go into overdrive like Anakin's and Dooku might be in some real trouble. But even then it would still be uncertain because Maul is no Anakin and Dooku is significantly superior to Maul in almost all aspects except for physical strength and stamina and while Maul's strength is superior to Dooku's by a fair margin, I think Dooku's stamina is almost on par. Dooku's speed probably is slightly better than Maul's as well.
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 18:06:06 GMT -5
Yeah Maul is weak in TCW, but they made him terrible as well. Maul always trained in Juyo form which relies on quick and accurate attacks, he couldn't utilize that well with one lightsaber, he actually fought better when he was dual wielding. Maul should have just had a double bladed saber again though.
The only time Dooku looked sort of weak was when he fought Anakin in the deception arc but Anakin was all hyped on the dark side as well and that fight really showed his development. Dooku was still very powerful
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Post by Potato on Dec 29, 2015 0:03:19 GMT -5
Dooku was out of breath after fighting Anakin in Shadow Warrior and he also tried out in Crisis on Naboo (funny how both of those were on Naboo). I'm pretty sure TCW was trying to show a progression of their duels as it led up to Revenge of the Sith.
And there's not really much evidence for if Maul was weak during TCW. He fought Obi-Wan, what, three times? He lost once, but he wasn't technically beaten since he just fled. In the Son of Dathomir comic I think he was able to hold his own against Aayla Secura and Mace Windu... not to mention he lasted a pretty good amount of time against Sidious.
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Post by Potato on Dec 29, 2015 0:06:58 GMT -5
How powerful do you all think Krell was? I've always wondered this because we don't really have anyone to compare him to. He was shown as really strong in the Umbara arc, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because he only went up against clones. He was apparently a jedi master, but he wasn't on the council. So who do you think you'd compare him to?
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 29, 2015 8:48:41 GMT -5
How powerful do you all think Krell was? I've always wondered this because we don't really have anyone to compare him to. He was shown as really strong in the Umbara arc, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because he only went up against clones. He was apparently a jedi master, but he wasn't on the council. So who do you think you'd compare him to? I think his strength was outrageously good. But he lacked agility and was most likely conceited. That's why he lost to the clones due to him being cocky and not smart.
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Post by Kenbo on Dec 29, 2015 9:32:16 GMT -5
This thread is basically TL;DR... Lol ok bye
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Post by Newan on Dec 30, 2015 0:11:07 GMT -5
How powerful do you all think Krell was? I've always wondered this because we don't really have anyone to compare him to. He was shown as really strong in the Umbara arc, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because he only went up against clones. He was apparently a jedi master, but he wasn't on the council. So who do you think you'd compare him to? Honestly... I think he just a Jedi version of Savage, maybe even worse then him. Not much you can do in terms of moves swinging two double bladed Sabres around like a maniac. Savages raw force power is probably better as well
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Post by Newan on Dec 30, 2015 0:20:52 GMT -5
We got Star Wars saga on Blu Ray for Christmas and my dad and I just watched TPM... LOL anyone saying the Gungans are better then Ewoks. First of all the Gungans are able to make an underwater speeder yet they can't seem to make a blaster (or even be smart enough to pick up a blaster) or any kind of war weapon or vehicle. They also fight like idiots not playing to their strengths at all... Marching into an open field with sticks is quite possibly the worst strategy of all time and instead of doing the logical thing which would be stand near the edge of th shield and as the droids walk through smash them... No stand 20 yards back and let them shoot at you... The film itself wasn't as bad as I remember TBH but it's just so boring at times and really some of the things are so illogical that both myself and my dad where pointing them out... Like Mauls purpose in this movie is useless, land on the other side of the planet to invade, don't want to attract attention but bring Jar Jar into the city, meeting the army of Gungans in the field (no strategic advantage here), etc. Still enjoyed watching the film again but I'll give it a 7/10 at best. Now just got to get through Attack of the Clones but after that we at last get to the good ones. We're going back to TFA on either the 9th or 10th so gotta get through them all by then
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Post by Kenbo on Dec 30, 2015 12:27:06 GMT -5
I want to eventually get the blu Ray complete saga it's about $100 I think... I guess it's worth it.. Idk a little under $20 for each disc? I think I got ROTS for $13 but that wasn't blu ray
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Post by Newan on Dec 30, 2015 12:59:42 GMT -5
I want to eventually get the blu Ray complete saga it's about $100 I think... I guess it's worth it.. Idk a little under $20 for each disc? I think I got ROTS for $13 but that wasn't blu ray It about $16.5 per disc so it's pretty good deal, the picture and sound quality was fantastic as well. Much better then watching it on TV or the DVDs we have
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Post by Newan on Dec 30, 2015 18:33:17 GMT -5
Just watched AOTC... The part right after the Speeder chase to the dog fight between Jango and Obi-Wan is enough to put you to sleep... So boring
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Post by Newan on Dec 31, 2015 0:41:39 GMT -5
You know why do people actually blame the cancelation of TCW on Disney?? It should be on George Lucas more then anything... He could have easily kept a clause in the contract to keep TCW running OR just wait 2-3 years for TCW to be finished, I mean it's not like he was forced to sell and there wasn't any real rush.
From Disney's perspective the cancelation does make sense from a business point of view, a good portion of TCW was likely being paid out of GL own wallet, these where stories that HE wanted. I don't think TCW made enough money to justify the fantastic animation (for 22 episode seasons as well) combined with the salaries of voice actors and everything. Again these stories where things GL wanted and where isolated from Disney (played on a seperate channel and everything).
He sold Star Wars for pretty cheap as well, didn't Marvel just recently buy the rights from Fox for 2 billion just for Spider-Man alone? Given the low price for what this franchise is actually worth a clause like that isn't even a big factor, Disney still gets a steal of a deal.
I can understand people blaming them for 1313, Detours or whatever else but I really don't think TCW (which was the main SW product running before Disney) is on them so much. A good portion of th blame should be on GL
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Post by Pinda on Dec 31, 2015 10:28:34 GMT -5
You know why do people actually blame the cancelation of TCW on Disney?? It should be on George Lucas more then anything... He could have easily kept a clause in the contract to keep TCW running OR just wait 2-3 years for TCW to be finished, I mean it's not like he was forced to sell and there wasn't any real rush. From Disney's perspective the cancelation does make sense from a business point of view, a good portion of TCW was likely being paid out of GL own wallet, these where stories that HE wanted. I don't think TCW made enough money to justify the fantastic animation (for 22 episode seasons as well) combined with the salaries of voice actors and everything. Again these stories where things GL wanted and where isolated from Disney (played on a seperate channel and everything). He sold Star Wars for pretty cheap as well, didn't Marvel just recently buy the rights from Fox for 2 billion just for Spider-Man alone? Given the low price for what this franchise is actually worth a clause like that isn't even a big factor, Disney still gets a steal of a deal. I can understand people blaming them for 1313, Detours or whatever else but I really don't think TCW (which was the main SW product running before Disney) is on them so much. A good portion of th blame should be on GL It's all on them. I don't think Lucas had to option to include TCW in the contract. And an episode of TCW costed about 2 million dollars, for comparison an episode of Legend of Korra costed 1 million, but some of them were only used for online release and still made money. TCW had a much larger audience and much better potential for merchandise so it definitely made back the money invested in it. I don't think Lucas even considered that they would cancel TCW, just like most of us didn't.
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 31, 2015 11:10:51 GMT -5
I wanna know what Lucas' original vision of the new trilogy was. And why Disney didn't like it.
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Post by Pinda on Dec 31, 2015 11:14:41 GMT -5
I wanna know what Lucas' original vision of the new trilogy was. And why Disney didn't like it. From what I have heard: Lucas wanted to create a new unique movie trilogy (with ties to the previous movies obviously) Disney wanted to do a New Hope remake filled with fanservice.
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Dec 31, 2015 12:34:17 GMT -5
I wanna know what Lucas' original vision of the new trilogy was. And why Disney didn't like it. From what I have heard: Lucas wanted to create a new unique movie trilogy (with ties to the previous movies obviously) Disney wanted to do a New Hope remake filled with fanservice. Yeah, I think that was pretty much it I think it also had more to do with characters that were just kids. Considering how Episode I went down and how they desperately wanted the film to be good (no matter safe they played it) it's inevitable that Disney would say no. As to how it would've worked out, I don't know. Certainly more original, but I'd like to know the details before making any assumptions.
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Post by Newan on Dec 31, 2015 12:59:23 GMT -5
You know why do people actually blame the cancelation of TCW on Disney?? It should be on George Lucas more then anything... He could have easily kept a clause in the contract to keep TCW running OR just wait 2-3 years for TCW to be finished, I mean it's not like he was forced to sell and there wasn't any real rush. From Disney's perspective the cancelation does make sense from a business point of view, a good portion of TCW was likely being paid out of GL own wallet, these where stories that HE wanted. I don't think TCW made enough money to justify the fantastic animation (for 22 episode seasons as well) combined with the salaries of voice actors and everything. Again these stories where things GL wanted and where isolated from Disney (played on a seperate channel and everything). He sold Star Wars for pretty cheap as well, didn't Marvel just recently buy the rights from Fox for 2 billion just for Spider-Man alone? Given the low price for what this franchise is actually worth a clause like that isn't even a big factor, Disney still gets a steal of a deal. I can understand people blaming them for 1313, Detours or whatever else but I really don't think TCW (which was the main SW product running before Disney) is on them so much. A good portion of th blame should be on GL It's all on them. I don't think Lucas had to option to include TCW in the contract. And an episode of TCW costed about 2 million dollars, for comparison an episode of Legend of Korra costed 1 million, but some of them were only used for online release and still made money. TCW had a much larger audience and much better potential for merchandise so it definitely made back the money invested in it. I don't think Lucas even considered that they would cancel TCW, just like most of us didn't. He could have waited two years then sold...
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Post by Kenbo on Dec 31, 2015 18:49:21 GMT -5
I actually got the blu ray set. I guess might as well now then wait because I doubt there would be a price difference or anything. Well yeah now I can watch SW whenever but I don't think I will maybe TESB sometime Or I should do a marathon... Lol nah I can barely watch one...
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Post by bobafett590 on Jan 1, 2016 12:23:11 GMT -5
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Post by Pinda on Jan 1, 2016 12:30:40 GMT -5
I heard he called Disney "White slavers"
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Post by Potato on Jan 1, 2016 14:05:17 GMT -5
I feel bad for George... you have to imagine that the massive amount of criticism he got from the prequels damaged him. Even if he was the one that sold Star Wars in the first place, the fact that it's really popular again probably makes him a bit sad since he's not a part of it at all.
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Post by Pinda on Jan 1, 2016 16:54:17 GMT -5
I feel bad for George... you have to imagine that the massive amount of criticism he got from the prequels damaged him. Even if he was the one that sold Star Wars in the first place, the fact that it's really popular again probably makes him a bit sad since he's not a part of it at all. Also, Disney bought his ideas for the new trilogy when they bought Star Wars, but they choose to discard all of it just to make a "fan service" film (in George's eyes) I could see that that upset him.
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