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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 16:22:15 GMT -5
The prequel choreography is far too polished and makes for an unrealistic fight. It's just dance moves that it really.
Vader is more powerful then any force users in the movies except Sidious, Windu and probably Yoda. Windu for sure because of his fighting style, I wouldn't be convinced on Yoda though for several reasons
The PT Jedi are still the worst which makes sense because they mainly lived at a time of peace
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 16:27:46 GMT -5
TCW Ahsoka is no better then Rebels Kanan. Actually I sort of like Kanan a bit better because he's not restricted by Jedi teachings, he is more of a Qunilan type character in a way.
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 16:30:43 GMT -5
And the reason for the fights being the way they are in the OT is not the choreography... They didn't want to make them some polished sterilized stuff you see in the prequels the reason is because they didn't want to do the effects for the lightsaber that much back in the 70s/80s.
I really liked the new duel in TFA as it felt very realistic and had a lot of tension in it
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 16:34:19 GMT -5
Also Luke didn't NEED to rely on his lightsaber 24/7 like all the PT Jedi do, he actually developed other skills that could help him out, the only one similar to that is Anakin. You take the force away from most of the PT Jedi and they're absolutely useless.
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 27, 2015 16:34:36 GMT -5
Obviously a lot of this has to with how that OT duels were really slow and the choreography wasn't anywhere near what it would become. People in the films may jizz over powerful Luke apparently is, but if you sit down and watch ROTJ, you see he's actually not very powerful. If we're comparing Krell and Luke's feats then we're comparing what they have actually done, not what they could have done or might have done judging by what others said, what they've actually done. Krell has proven himself to be very skilled in the force and swordsmanship, while Luke's swordsmanship is sloppy and probably wouldn't even rival Jaime Lannister. One area we can compare Krell and Luke is how they take on opponents with blasters. Luke did eventually defeat the gunmen on the sail barge, but he needed a bit of help and his hand was shot. And let's not forget that these were random untrained thugs. Krell quickly and effectively mowed through the professional soldiers of the 501st. And these clones would later massacre the Jedi. Krell's attacks were much more refined and he was much more deadly than Luke. I don't think Luke would have stood a chance. Maybe he had potential that the Emperor sensed, but he nevertheless paled in comparison to the Jedi Master at the time. You have yet to name a proper Krell feat other than saying he killed a bunch of clones and using that to prove his swordsmanship (I thought swordsmanship was judged on how someone fared against actual swordsmen.) . And if we're judging on what they actually done (which we should be doing as I have said) , Krell tried to take on a bunch of clones, retreated to the forest and got outwitted and defeated. That's the only thing he has done of any note and even then it ended in his humiliating defeat. So, as well as looking at their feats we should also look at the conditions in which they accomplished them. In Krell's case he managed to cut down some non-force sensitive clones who weren't expecting such a violent attack and whether he could replicate such a performance against one of the most powerful force users ever is another matter entirely. Luke defeated one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And since we're talking about a force user vs force user battle only feats concerning defeating Jedi or Sith really matter. And Krell has no such feats. And as I have said his agility which you praise him so much for having failed him when he needed it the most whereas Luke's agility was always consistent. (Dodging Vader's super-fast saber throw for instance, or dodging superfast speeders). But I'll address Luke's performance against blaster-armed opponents anyway. Yes he got shot but he has also blocked the bullets of and disarmed far more dangerous opponents, such as trained Imperial scouts and Boba Fett: So Luke can block bullets as well. Not as if that would be a deciding factor in a Jedi-Jedi duel though.... And the Emperor didn't only sense potential he sensed Luke's current power and that scared him just as much. He knew Luke was new to the Jedi business so to see him taking on a Sith Lord was frightening to him. Also you say "sit down and watch ROTJ". I do and I see Luke as a powerful Jedi who defeated a Sith Lord in one-to-one combat. And when I look at the novel it just reinforces my view because it shows that Vader realised how much he underestimated Luke's power and Emperor is described as being fearful at what he witnessed. |
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 27, 2015 17:32:11 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could.
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 17:34:28 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could. Current TFA Luke? Yes |
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 27, 2015 17:37:12 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could. Current TFA Luke? Yes Doubt it. |
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 27, 2015 17:38:02 GMT -5
Revan vs Luke?
Revan obviously, he's like the heart of the force. No way he could rival Revan.
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 27, 2015 17:51:54 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could. That's not the real question. The real question is could he defeat featless opponents Krell, Ahsoka and Grievous? Yes he definitely could....easily. And we're talking about canon universe Luke here where the Old Republic Sith don't even exist. So it's a bit unfair to compare Legends Sith with Canon Luke. That said, Canon-Luke could probably beat a few Old Republic Sith though anyway due to his immense affinity with the force and lightsaber skills which even shocked Palpy. If we're talking about Legends Luke then he definitely could because in Legends he's basically a Yoda-level Jedi. Of course if Krell or Grievous tried to go toe to toe with any Sith Lord from any era they'd be curbstomped into oblivion almost immediately. Ahsoka would probably last a lot longer than Krell and Grievous but she would still get beat. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 18:06:06 GMT -5
Not really even a valid answer TBH  TFA Luke is now a master, even if we didn't see him fight he is still Anakin's Son and was a Jedi without injuries as well for longer then Anakin now, Luke should be one if not the most powerful Jedi of all time. Legends Luke vs TOR Sith then Luke will win, a select few could give him a challenge and only a couple may actually possibly beat him. However SWTOR is on a higher level of canon then Post ROTJ content which is sort of irrelevant now in canon talks and will always be so |
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 27, 2015 18:08:30 GMT -5
Revan vs Luke? Revan obviously, he's like the heart of the force. No way he could rival Revan. Luke has a stronger connection to the force and has very good lightsaber skills. He'd probably have more than a fair shot at beating Revan. Revan beat Malak who was also a very powerful Sith but Malak doesn't rank near Vader. It depends on the circumstances but Luke could definitely take it if he played his cards right, I think. The speed at which he picked up his skills in force and lightsaber were incredible and he applied his newly learnt skills against a Sith Lord and won. And he put up a pretty good fight vs Vader in ESB despite only having very limited training. Luke is not out of his depth in this duel by any means and would probably beat Revan. Vader was toying with Luke in ESB, he wanted to seduce him to the dark side. Vader lost alot of his power when Anakin was ravaged by the fire. Vader is really a machine he lost alot of midicholorian which is confirmed by George Lucas. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 18:09:48 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could. That's not the real question. The real question is could he defeat featless opponents Krell, Ahsoka and Grievous? Yes he definitely could....easily. And we're talking about canon universe Luke here where the Old Republic Sith don't even exist. So it's a bit unfair to compare Legends Sith with Canon Luke. That said, Canon-Luke could probably beat a few Old Republic Sith though anyway due to his immense affinity with the force and lightsaber skills which even shocked Palpy. If we're talking about Legends Luke then he definitely could because in Legends he's basically a Yoda-level Jedi. Of course if Krell or Grievous tried to go toe to toe with any Sith Lord from any era they'd be curbstomped into oblivion almost immediately. Ahsoka would probably last a lot longer than Krell and Grievous but she would still get beat. Well if we want to delve into the Legends talk then Grievous is more powerful then almost every Jedi of his time at least, his ability to calculate and counter any form of lightsaber combat made him extremely deadly combined with his physical strength and agility. He only ever struggled against Windu really because of his unique Vaapadd. But Obi-Wan was the only Jedi that had a chance of actually beating him due to his mastery of Soresu. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 18:12:43 GMT -5
Luke has a stronger connection to the force and has very good lightsaber skills. He'd probably have more than a fair shot at beating Revan. Revan beat Malak who was also a very powerful Sith but Malak doesn't rank near Vader. It depends on the circumstances but Luke could definitely take it if he played his cards right, I think. The speed at which he picked up his skills in force and lightsaber were incredible and he applied his newly learnt skills against a Sith Lord and won. And he put up a pretty good fight vs Vader in ESB despite only having very limited training. Luke is not out of his depth in this duel by any means and would probably beat Revan. Vader was toying with Luke in ESB, he wanted to seduce him to the dark side. Vader lost alot of his power when Anakin was ravaged by the fire. Vader is really a machine he lost alot of midicholorian which is confirmed by George Lucas. Vader is still more powerful then almost everyone else in existence, his Midichlorian count was insane to begin with, losing a lot of it doesn't actually change much, just puts a smaller cap on his potential which is restricted due to the suit. |
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 27, 2015 18:14:39 GMT -5
That's not the real question. The real question is could he defeat featless opponents Krell, Ahsoka and Grievous? Yes he definitely could....easily. And we're talking about canon universe Luke here where the Old Republic Sith don't even exist. So it's a bit unfair to compare Legends Sith with Canon Luke. That said, Canon-Luke could probably beat a few Old Republic Sith though anyway due to his immense affinity with the force and lightsaber skills which even shocked Palpy. If we're talking about Legends Luke then he definitely could because in Legends he's basically a Yoda-level Jedi. Of course if Krell or Grievous tried to go toe to toe with any Sith Lord from any era they'd be curbstomped into oblivion almost immediately. Ahsoka would probably last a lot longer than Krell and Grievous but she would still get beat. Well if we want to delve into the Legends talk then Grievous is more powerful then almost every Jedi of his time at least, his ability to calculate and counter any form of lightsaber combat made him extremely deadly combined with his physical strength and agility. He only ever struggled against Windu really because of his unique Vaapadd. But Obi-Wan was the only Jedi that had a chance of actually beating him due to his mastery of Soresu. I don't want to delve into Legends which is why I basically dismissed the scenario about Luke fighting Old Republic Sith. It's not relevant because neither Legends Luke or Old Republic Sith are in the main canon universe. We should focus on whether Luke can beat canon characters like Krell and Grievous instead. Besides, I was only speaking hypothetically about Legends Luke vs TOR sith. My main focus was on canon-Luke vs TOR sith and I'm pretty sure he would still beat some of them, Legends or not. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 18:14:41 GMT -5
Revan vs Luke? Revan obviously, he's like the heart of the force. No way he could rival Revan. Depends on what version of Revan since there is technically 4 and each are different. Jedi Revan Darth Revan Revan Reborn Soul Split Revan |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 18:17:55 GMT -5
Well if we want to delve into the Legends talk then Grievous is more powerful then almost every Jedi of his time at least, his ability to calculate and counter any form of lightsaber combat made him extremely deadly combined with his physical strength and agility. He only ever struggled against Windu really because of his unique Vaapadd. But Obi-Wan was the only Jedi that had a chance of actually beating him due to his mastery of Soresu. I don't want to delve into Legends which is why I basically dismissed the scenario about Luke fighting Old Republic Sith. It's not relevant because neither Legends Luke or Old Republic Sith are in the main canon universe. We should focus on whether Luke can beat canon characters like Krell and Grievous instead. Besides, I was only speaking hypothetically about Legends Luke. My main focus was on canon-Luke vs TOR sith and I'm pretty sure he would still beat some of them, Legends or not. The only one I can see Luke Struggle against is Valkorian/ Vitiate/ Sith Emperor after all he is immortal and has lived for about 1300 years mastering dark arts but even he has weaknesses that can be be exploited. |
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Dec 27, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -5
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 27, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -5
The prequel choreography is far too polished and makes for an unrealistic fight. It's just dance moves that it really. Vader is more powerful then any force users in the movies except Sidious, Windu and probably Yoda. Windu for sure because of his fighting style, I wouldn't be convinced on Yoda though for several reasons The PT Jedi are still the worst which makes sense because they mainly lived at a time of peace It's hard to compare the two trilogy's heroes because of just how different they are portrayed. The Jedi seem so much stronger in the prequels and that's largely due to how differently their fights were choreographed. |
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Post by Spidyyr on Dec 27, 2015 18:41:59 GMT -5
Obviously a lot of this has to with how that OT duels were really slow and the choreography wasn't anywhere near what it would become. People in the films may jizz over powerful Luke apparently is, but if you sit down and watch ROTJ, you see he's actually not very powerful. If we're comparing Krell and Luke's feats then we're comparing what they have actually done, not what they could have done or might have done judging by what others said, what they've actually done. Krell has proven himself to be very skilled in the force and swordsmanship, while Luke's swordsmanship is sloppy and probably wouldn't even rival Jaime Lannister. One area we can compare Krell and Luke is how they take on opponents with blasters. Luke did eventually defeat the gunmen on the sail barge, but he needed a bit of help and his hand was shot. And let's not forget that these were random untrained thugs. Krell quickly and effectively mowed through the professional soldiers of the 501st. And these clones would later massacre the Jedi. Krell's attacks were much more refined and he was much more deadly than Luke. I don't think Luke would have stood a chance. Maybe he had potential that the Emperor sensed, but he nevertheless paled in comparison to the Jedi Master at the time. You have yet to name a proper Krell feat other than saying he killed a bunch of clones and using that to prove his swordsmanship (I thought swordsmanship was judged on how someone fared against actual swordsmen.) . And if we're judging on what they actually done (which we should be doing as I have said) , Krell tried to take on a bunch of clones, retreated to the forest and got outwitted and defeated. That's the only thing he has done of any note and even then it ended in his humiliating defeat. So, as well as looking at their feats we should also look at the conditions in which they accomplished them. In Krell's case he managed to cut down some non-force sensitive clones who weren't expecting such a violent attack and whether he could replicate such a performance against one of the most powerful force users ever is another matter entirely. Luke defeated one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And since we're talking about a force user vs force user battle only feats concerning defeating Jedi or Sith really matter. And Krell has no such feats. And as I have said his agility which you praise him so much for having failed him when he needed it the most whereas Luke's agility was always consistent. (Dodging Vader's super-fast saber throw for instance, or dodging superfast speeders). But I'll address Luke's performance against blaster-armed opponents anyway. Yes he got shot but he has also blocked the bullets of and disarmed far more dangerous opponents, such as trained Imperial scouts and Boba Fett: So Luke can block bullets as well. Not as if that would be a deciding factor in a Jedi-Jedi duel though.... And the Emperor didn't only sense potential he sensed Luke's current power and that scared him just as much. He knew Luke was new to the Jedi business so to see him taking on a Sith Lord was frightening to him. Also you say "sit down and watch ROTJ". I do and I see Luke as a powerful Jedi who defeated a Sith Lord in one-to-one combat. And when I look at the novel it just reinforces my view because it shows that Vader realised how much he underestimated Luke's power and Emperor is described as being fearful at what he witnessed. I'll come back to this in 12 days or so if I care to. There's a lot of mystical BS you can quote from novels, but if you sit down and watch the films without any of that, you can see just how underpowered the OT Jedi are. Don't quote made up thoughts for the characters. Open your eyes and look at the screen. |
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 27, 2015 19:15:19 GMT -5
You have yet to name a proper Krell feat other than saying he killed a bunch of clones and using that to prove his swordsmanship (I thought swordsmanship was judged on how someone fared against actual swordsmen.) . And if we're judging on what they actually done (which we should be doing as I have said) , Krell tried to take on a bunch of clones, retreated to the forest and got outwitted and defeated. That's the only thing he has done of any note and even then it ended in his humiliating defeat. So, as well as looking at their feats we should also look at the conditions in which they accomplished them. In Krell's case he managed to cut down some non-force sensitive clones who weren't expecting such a violent attack and whether he could replicate such a performance against one of the most powerful force users ever is another matter entirely. Luke defeated one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And since we're talking about a force user vs force user battle only feats concerning defeating Jedi or Sith really matter. And Krell has no such feats. And as I have said his agility which you praise him so much for having failed him when he needed it the most whereas Luke's agility was always consistent. (Dodging Vader's super-fast saber throw for instance, or dodging superfast speeders). But I'll address Luke's performance against blaster-armed opponents anyway. Yes he got shot but he has also blocked the bullets of and disarmed far more dangerous opponents, such as trained Imperial scouts and Boba Fett: So Luke can block bullets as well. Not as if that would be a deciding factor in a Jedi-Jedi duel though.... And the Emperor didn't only sense potential he sensed Luke's current power and that scared him just as much. He knew Luke was new to the Jedi business so to see him taking on a Sith Lord was frightening to him. Also you say "sit down and watch ROTJ". I do and I see Luke as a powerful Jedi who defeated a Sith Lord in one-to-one combat. And when I look at the novel it just reinforces my view because it shows that Vader realised how much he underestimated Luke's power and Emperor is described as being fearful at what he witnessed. I'll come back to this in 12 days or so if I care to. There's a lot of mystical BS you can quote from novels, but if you sit down and watch the films without any of that, you can see just how underpowered the OT Jedi are. Don't quote made up thoughts for the characters. Open your eyes and look at the screen. So you're basically ignoring 100% canon sources because they conflict with your line of thinking? And I'm not only quoting (canon) novels. I'm also quoting the likes of GL and SW factbooks approved by him. And your argument here is: Bad 70s choreography = Luke must be weak. That's not really an argument. Like, at all. Not to mention that's the fight between Obi Wan and Vader, totally irrelevant. It's far different to the Luke-Vader fight I refer to. There's more to characters to what we see right in front of us. You don't even need to read novels to tell (they just further explain/clarify Luke's potential). Just read between the lines and it's clear how great of a Jedi Luke is. In fact onscreen the OT again and again makes it clear Luke is an incredibly talented Jedi and his defeat of Vader was showing how strong he was. His defeat of Vader was no accident. It was to show he was a truly exceptional Jedi. Also movie novelizations and all within them are 100% canon according to Disney and GL. Call them whatever you want, they still are and are valid evidence in any discussion about canon universe Luke. And like I said I do sit down and watch the films and what do I see? A recently trained Jedi besting one of the most powerful Sith of all time. Even without novelizations anyone can tell Luke is immensely powerful, much more than Krell and Grievous who we see are unable to defeat even the most weakest of enemies. Of course if you want to storm off because you've been presented with an opposing opinion and hate being challenged then that's your decision to make......... |
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Post by Newan on Dec 27, 2015 19:16:54 GMT -5
You have yet to name a proper Krell feat other than saying he killed a bunch of clones and using that to prove his swordsmanship (I thought swordsmanship was judged on how someone fared against actual swordsmen.) . And if we're judging on what they actually done (which we should be doing as I have said) , Krell tried to take on a bunch of clones, retreated to the forest and got outwitted and defeated. That's the only thing he has done of any note and even then it ended in his humiliating defeat. So, as well as looking at their feats we should also look at the conditions in which they accomplished them. In Krell's case he managed to cut down some non-force sensitive clones who weren't expecting such a violent attack and whether he could replicate such a performance against one of the most powerful force users ever is another matter entirely. Luke defeated one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history. And since we're talking about a force user vs force user battle only feats concerning defeating Jedi or Sith really matter. And Krell has no such feats. And as I have said his agility which you praise him so much for having failed him when he needed it the most whereas Luke's agility was always consistent. (Dodging Vader's super-fast saber throw for instance, or dodging superfast speeders). But I'll address Luke's performance against blaster-armed opponents anyway. Yes he got shot but he has also blocked the bullets of and disarmed far more dangerous opponents, such as trained Imperial scouts and Boba Fett: So Luke can block bullets as well. Not as if that would be a deciding factor in a Jedi-Jedi duel though.... And the Emperor didn't only sense potential he sensed Luke's current power and that scared him just as much. He knew Luke was new to the Jedi business so to see him taking on a Sith Lord was frightening to him. Also you say "sit down and watch ROTJ". I do and I see Luke as a powerful Jedi who defeated a Sith Lord in one-to-one combat. And when I look at the novel it just reinforces my view because it shows that Vader realised how much he underestimated Luke's power and Emperor is described as being fearful at what he witnessed. I'll come back to this in 12 days or so if I care to. There's a lot of mystical BS you can quote from novels, but if you sit down and watch the films without any of that, you can see just how underpowered the OT Jedi are. Don't quote made up thoughts for the characters. Open your eyes and look at the screen. That fight is still more real then 50 slashes a minute... Also that fight had a lot more depth behind it then pretty much all the prequels duels. Every lightsaber fight in the OT had meaning and went well with the story. Look at TPM, the fight at the end was just random and had no depth at all. The villain as a useless charactless crap that actually had no purpose in the movie other then that fight and to sell toys after |
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Post by Potato on Dec 27, 2015 19:32:59 GMT -5
This all brings up an interesting question of how powerful Luke will be in Episode VIII. It really looks like they're setting him up to be the ultimate master.
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 27, 2015 19:38:16 GMT -5
This all brings up an interesting question of how powerful Luke will be in Episode VIII. It really looks like they're setting him up to be the ultimate master. Yeah I'm guessing he'll kind of be the Yoda of the Sequels. I think this would be pretty cool and would draw a nice parallel with the OT. The difference is that he'd probably, unlike Yoda, be ready to get his hands dirty in defeating the Sith. A Kylo-Luke duel is definitely a possibility and would be fun to watch (TFA duels were actually quite good and a nice introduction to our characters abilities). |
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Post by Star on Dec 27, 2015 19:55:04 GMT -5
PT lightsaber duels were more polished because it was a time of peace so the Jedi had more time to practice and perfect their fighting styles (plus I'm sure GL probably wanted it to look flashier). OT lightsaber duels are less choreographed since there's no real training going on and it's not a peaceful time. That's why the duels in the OT are rougher and less polished compared to the PT. The sequels will do the same as the OT since they're in a similar time period to that of the OT. It makes sense. Just because the duels may look more polished doesn't make the Jedi in them look more powerful. Most of the PT Jedi are weaker (minus a handful) simply because they didn't have to fight any real threats. Droids aren't really a danger, even if there's thousands of them. Grievous isn't a major threat since he isn't Force-sensitive plus the canon material makes him even weaker than he should be. As for Dooku, he's never fighting Jedi enough to really demonstrate how PT Jedi fare against a true Sith Lord.
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Post by ?6 (CBK) on Dec 28, 2015 9:21:27 GMT -5
Revan vs Luke? Revan obviously, he's like the heart of the force. No way he could rival Revan. Depends on what version of Revan since there is technically 4 and each are different. Jedi Revan Darth Revan Revan Reborn Soul Split Revan Revan Reborn I'm referring to sorry. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 13:07:12 GMT -5
Depends on what version of Revan since there is technically 4 and each are different. Jedi Revan Darth Revan Revan Reborn Soul Split Revan Revan Reborn I'm referring to sorry. Then in according with Legends Luke they're probably even |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 28, 2015 13:13:31 GMT -5
The real question is.... Can Luke defeat Old Republic Sith? Doubt he could. Current TFA Luke? Yes We haven´t seen him do anything yet, so hard to tell. |
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Post by Newan on Dec 28, 2015 13:42:27 GMT -5
We haven´t seen him do anything yet, so hard to tell. He has the name Skywalker and he's been a Jedi now for 30 years... Don't need anything to tell, he's going to be powerful |
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Post by Pinda on Dec 28, 2015 13:52:35 GMT -5
We haven´t seen him do anything yet, so hard to tell. He has the name Skywalker and he's been a Jedi now for 30 years... Don't need anything to tell, he's going to be powerful He failed to prevent his students from turning to the darkside... so he has to be lacking in some fields at least. |
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Post by bobafett590 on Dec 28, 2015 14:01:35 GMT -5
  This ranking was present in a recently released SW factbook laying down some canon facts about SW (source: Everything you need to Know about SW). Factbooks have consistently really been the only things where we can find out the abilities of characters because they're usually unbiased. Factbooks or quotes from SW executives like GL (or of course stuff in movie/novelizations) But this is so wrong and the only ranking contradicted by new SW writers is 3 & 4 because the Sons of Dathomir author said Maul "isn't...even at Dooku's level" (link). So I guess it isn't so bad..... (although that even could be disputed)
But the biggest, most eye-watering mistake on there has yet to be corrected. Vader better with a saber than Palpy? I think not. Palpy is number one in most if not all departments of Sith-Lording... Everything else could actually be up for debate though (which is why putting out official lists just causes confusion and should be avoided.) I'm pretty sure this will be corrected soon but as it stands Vader is canonically a better Saber user than Palpy.....  .
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TFA Luke is now a master, even if we didn't see him fight he is still Anakin's Son and was a Jedi without injuries as well for longer then Anakin now, Luke should be one if not the most powerful Jedi of all time.
it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 