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Post by Spidyyr on May 14, 2019 13:41:54 GMT -5
And yes, she had lost Jorah, Rhaegal, and Missandei in pretty quick succession. But I think her going apeshit would be more justifiable if she had lost one of them during the siege. Rhaegal in particular would’ve been a good one to save to this episode.
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Post by Pinda on May 14, 2019 16:01:53 GMT -5
I thought about it more and I am able to reconcile Daenerys going full on Elliot Rodger on King’s Landing. I remember finding Dany’s reaction to Viserys’ death pretty disturbing. A lot of people saw that as a “fuck yeah” moment but I thought it was cold, even though I hated Viserys. And I couldn’t believe what she did to the Masters of Mereen. Yes, most of them were awful people but it seemed so needlessly vicious. Whenever people said Dany was a hero, I would point to that. I suppose in my mind I thought Dany has grown beyond that and had become a more benevolent ruler. Even knowing how dark she could potentially get, I just didn’t see her snapping that far with so little provocation. It does not come out of nowhere as some people claim. Still, I think they made quite a jump from crucifying a few hundred slavers to killing a million innocent people. But yes, as someone else pointed out Dany has always been a bit... dark... Especially when compared to other "good" characters, like Ned, Jon or Davos. The thing was, her enemies in Essos were terrible people so it was not too big of a deal for the audience. Who likes Viserys anyway? Or slavers? When she got the Unsullied she murdered basically everyone in the city that wasn't a slave... Which seems harsh, not every non-slave is a terrible person per definition. I think Dany's actions in the lats episode were believable, but they should have build it up a bit more because it still felt like she took a huge step there... Remember a few seasons back when Drogon supposedly killed a child and she imprisoned her dragons for it? Now she just kills every child in King's Landing herself... It's too much of a leap. |
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Post by Pinda on May 14, 2019 18:50:43 GMT -5
- Lightbringer prophecy from the books
So I am going full tinfoil here to fix this... Everyone assumed this referred to forging a weapon to kill the White Walkers. But what if it refers to something else?
What if "to temper it in water" refers to defeating the White Walkers? They are beings of ice after all, and ice is just frozen water. They are defeated by Jon (we don't know exactly who will do it in the books, but I suspect Jon will have a more important role). But killing them did not bring light. The darkness was still there.
So then we have the "lion". This could refer to Cersei. Which means the defeat Cersei. So the Jon attacks King's Landing and tempers the sword in a lion's heart. But that does not bring the light either.
Then finally, we have "Nissa Nissa", the hero's wife. This could be Dany. In an attempt to murder her Jon pretends to "love" her again and as she bares her breast Jon kills her. And then finally he brings the light, by destroying the real darkness, the real threat: Daenerys and her dragons.
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Post by Pinda on May 14, 2019 18:56:36 GMT -5
Why I find Dany's turn more believable:
Anakin went from being a generally nice guy to murdering children in person in just a few hours. At least Daenerys didn't personally kill children face-to-face. It is a well-known fact that people are more inclined to use excessive violence when they don't face the consequences themselves. Lighting a city on fire with a dragon probably means you won't actually see anyone die, nor do it yourself. It is one of the reasons why the First and Second World War were so much more brutal. For the first time you could kill people without ever seeing them face-to-face. It is easier to bombard some anonymous enemy than to look them in the eye and slash them to bits with a sword.
I don't think Dany would have killed any innocent children with a sword like Anakin did.
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Post by Star on May 15, 2019 8:07:03 GMT -5
I imagine most of the finale will be dedicated to figuring out the Dany situation, but hopefully we'll get enough time to focus on other characters like Sansa, Bran, Brienne, and Gendry. Seems very likely to me that Bronn will show up as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turned on Tyrion to help Dany if the chance presented itself. It's not like Tyrion can really offer Bronn anything immediate with all of KL decimated, but it's possible Dany can.
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Post by Kenbo on May 15, 2019 9:19:55 GMT -5
Why I find Dany's turn more believable: Anakin went from being a generally nice guy to murdering children in person in just a few hours. At least Daenerys didn't personally kill children face-to-face. It is a well-known fact that people are more inclined to use excessive violence when they don't face the consequences themselves. Lighting a city on fire with a dragon probably means you won't actually see anyone die, nor do it yourself. It is one of the reasons why the First and Second World War were so much more brutal. For the first time you could kill people without ever seeing them face-to-face. It is easier to bombard some anonymous enemy than to look them in the eye and slash them to bits with a sword. I don't think Dany would have killed any innocent children with a sword like Anakin did. What about not just the men but the women and children? Anakin struggles to control his rage this much is made very clear. Also the build up of things that pushed him to darkness was more obvious and more substantial imo. He thinks the Jedi are to blame for most of his problems. They restricted him from saving his mother, marrying Padme. They didn't trust him and kept secrets from him even after all he had done for them and they didn't even grant him the rank of Master. Very easy to hate and even kill them. And with Padme's life threatened, the only person left he truly loves, and it being out of the question to get help from the Jedi, out of pure desperation he turns to Sidious, the only chance he has at saving her and he'll do anything he wants. His desperation to save his wife, his hatred of the Jedi, and his incapability to overcome his emotions made him do the things he did. Maybe I'm biased because I like Anakin's story way more and maybe it's just better in my head than what it actually was idk.. Now I don't doubt arguments can be made for Dany's fall. And Anakin's transformation was also rushed as hell but he only got three movies (or just one since it was mainly ROTS) while Dany had an entire show. I think Anakin's instability was easier to see as well while Dany always seemed like a rational person until just suddenly snapping. She probably should've done some other really evil and unjustifiable act before episode 5. |
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 10:12:20 GMT -5
To be honest. Before the season started the Red Cross ranked all of the major players on the amount of war crimes they committed. Ramsay was obviously at the top with 17 war crimes. But you know who was in the runner-up? Daenarys, with 15 war crimes. Cersei only had 3. So... it definitely doesn't come out of nowhere...
I think one of the problems is that D&D tried to make Dany look nicer in the show than she is in the books, which makes the turn much harder to believe. In the books she her thoughts have always shown some kind of madness. In the books at first she really feels horrible about Drogon killing a child, but near the end of ADWD she has forgotten the child's name and thinks something (paraphrasing here) like "there will be collateral damage, a dragon does not concern himself with collateral damage."
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Post by Spidyyr on May 15, 2019 11:16:05 GMT -5
I imagine most of the finale will be dedicated to figuring out the Dany situation, but hopefully we'll get enough time to focus on other characters like Sansa, Bran, Brienne, and Gendry. Seems very likely to me that Bronn will show up as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turned on Tyrion to help Dany if the chance presented itself. It's not like Tyrion can really offer Bronn anything immediate with all of KL decimated, but it's possible Dany can. I kinda feel like we might not see Gendry again. |
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Post by Spidyyr on May 15, 2019 11:18:46 GMT -5
I am a prophet.
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 11:28:08 GMT -5
I imagine most of the finale will be dedicated to figuring out the Dany situation, but hopefully we'll get enough time to focus on other characters like Sansa, Bran, Brienne, and Gendry. Seems very likely to me that Bronn will show up as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turned on Tyrion to help Dany if the chance presented itself. It's not like Tyrion can really offer Bronn anything immediate with all of KL decimated, but it's possible Dany can. I kinda feel like we might not see Gendry again. Yeah, I don't think we need to see him really. He is off to Storm's End to claim it. Sure, it doesn't really make sense. Will he just show up and demand to be made lord of Storm's End to whomever currently holds it? It's stupid. But I don't think we need to get into that with just one episode left. I honestly don't want to waste any of the remaining 80 minutes of screen time on Bronn either. But we definitely need to spend some time with Sansa and Bran, on top of the characters in King's Landing... and I am sure we will. Sansa still has a part to play for sure. And hopefully Bran will too. |
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Post by Potato on May 15, 2019 11:41:04 GMT -5
I think we'll see Gendry briefly, but it won't be until the end of the episode (possibly an epilogue or something). I wouldn't be surprised if all the other characters currently in Winterfell don't show up again until the end as well.
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 12:07:14 GMT -5
I really don't understand how they plan to deal with the Dany/Jon conflict AND finish up all remaining storylines in just 80 minutes. They really fucked up with the 6 episode season...
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Post by Kenbo on May 15, 2019 12:16:03 GMT -5
To be honest. Before the season started the Red Cross ranked all of the major players on the amount of war crimes they committed. Ramsay was obviously at the top with 17 war crimes. But you know who was in the runner-up? Daenarys, with 15 war crimes. Cersei only had 3. So... it definitely doesn't come out of nowhere... I think one of the problems is that D&D tried to make Dany look nicer in the show than she is in the books, which makes the turn much harder to believe. In the books she her thoughts have always shown some kind of madness. In the books at first she really feels horrible about Drogon killing a child, but near the end of ADWD she has forgotten the child's name and thinks something (paraphrasing here) like "there will be collateral damage, a dragon does not concern himself with collateral damage." I don't think it comes out if no where. I always thought she was kind of a cruel bitch. And yeah there's evidence it's just it doesn't seem like the next step is destroying a city. So the only problem is it was rushed and not written as well as it could be. The destruction of the city is what came out of nowhere. Literally just showing Rhegal dying or something that would make her emotional would've essentially fixed it in my eyes. Both transformations are rushed yes but idk I can actually feel bad for Anakin. The shit that happened to him was because of the circumstances around him. I feel like Dany brought everything upon herself. She never really struck me as a good and kind hearted person but rather pretty selfish. Anakin was good. So his fall is more tragic to me. Also I like what he said that there's a difference between foreshadowing and development |
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Post by Kenbo on May 15, 2019 12:16:24 GMT -5
I imagine most of the finale will be dedicated to figuring out the Dany situation, but hopefully we'll get enough time to focus on other characters like Sansa, Bran, Brienne, and Gendry. Seems very likely to me that Bronn will show up as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turned on Tyrion to help Dany if the chance presented itself. It's not like Tyrion can really offer Bronn anything immediate with all of KL decimated, but it's possible Dany can. I kinda feel like we might not see Gendry again. Or Bronn tbh.. |
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Post by Kenbo on May 15, 2019 12:17:14 GMT -5
I really don't understand how they plan to deal with the Dany/Jon conflict AND finish up all remaining storylines in just 80 minutes. They really fucked up with the 6 episode season... Was it for budget reasons or what? You said somewhere the writers got bored but is that actually why they started wrapping it up? |
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 12:23:37 GMT -5
I really don't understand how they plan to deal with the Dany/Jon conflict AND finish up all remaining storylines in just 80 minutes. They really fucked up with the 6 episode season... Was it for budget reasons or what? You said somewhere the writers got bored but is that actually why they started wrapping it up? Yes. Around the time season 5 or 6 came out HBO offered them 10 seasons of 10 episodes each. But D&D only wanted 7 seasons because they felt like they had been working on GOT for too long. In the end they reached a compromise where instead of 10 episodes for season 7, they got 13 episodes spread out over two seasons. So D&D really fucked it up. They could just have someone else takeover from them, or finish the most successful thing they will ever be involved with in a proper way... but they refused because they were bored. |
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 12:32:07 GMT -5
Just imagine, if we had actually gotten 10 full seasons... This series could have been a true masterpiece. Because I really don't feel like the story of this last season is terrible... The pacing is ruining everything, and they don't seem to have the time to properly wrap up every story thread. They should have done 10 seasons, and included all the sideplots: Aegon, the Dornish plots, the conflicts on the Iron Islands, etc. Then they would not have had so many characters in bad places. Varys for example seemed completely useless because in the books he is trying to get Aegon (not Jon but someone who claims to be Rhaegar's firstborn) on the throne. But that Aegon doesn't exist in the show, so Varys was useless. Same with Euron. In the books the Iron Islands plot is much more elaborate, so Euron does something useful. And the Dornish plotline is the best thing about A Feast for Crows. If they had just adapted it season 5 and 6 would have been significantly better too.
It is really sad that this show was ruined by having too few seasons/episodes. I wonder if there are any other major TV shows that ever had that happen to them... It's not like there was any reason for GOT to wrap up...
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 12:37:13 GMT -5
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Post by Spidyyr on May 15, 2019 12:38:18 GMT -5
Just imagine, if we had actually gotten 10 full seasons... This series could have been a true masterpiece. Because I really don't feel like the story of this last season is terrible... The pacing is ruining everything, and they don't seem to have the time to properly wrap up every story thread. They should have done 10 seasons, and included all the sideplots: Aegon, the Dornish plots, the conflicts on the Iron Islands, etc. Then they would not have had so many characters in bad places. Varys for example seemed completely useless because in the books he is trying to get Aegon (not Jon but someone who claims to be Rhaegar's firstborn) on the throne. But that Aegon doesn't exist in the show, so Varys was useless. Same with Euron. In the books the Iron Islands plot is much more elaborate, so Euron does something useful. And the Dornish plotline is the best thing about A Feast for Crows. If they had just adapted it season 5 and 6 would have been significantly better too. It is really sad that this show was ruined by having too few seasons/episodes. I wonder if there are any other major TV shows that ever had that happen to them... It's not like there was any reason for GOT to wrap up... Maybe it wouldn’t have been realistic for them to do that. But by god it would be glorious. |
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Post by Spidyyr on May 15, 2019 12:39:06 GMT -5
Also I was really looking forward to Victarion.
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Post by Kenbo on May 15, 2019 13:48:28 GMT -5
Was it for budget reasons or what? You said somewhere the writers got bored but is that actually why they started wrapping it up? Yes. Around the time season 5 or 6 came out HBO offered them 10 seasons of 10 episodes each. But D&D only wanted 7 seasons because they felt like they had been working on GOT for too long. In the end they reached a compromise where instead of 10 episodes for season 7, they got 13 episodes spread out over two seasons. So D&D really fucked it up. They could just have someone else takeover from them, or finish the most successful thing they will ever be involved with in a proper way... but they refused because they were bored. Damn. Like I get it it takes a lot of energy to keep a show going. It’s not a pump and dump show with 20 episode seasons that probably has a whole team of writers. After 8 years I could see why they could be bored or tired. Archer has one guy that writes every single episode and he’s stopping it now after ten seasons. So I understand. But I don’t like it. If it was any other show it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But this had the makings of a masterpiece. If you can’t finish it bring someone in who can. |
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Post by Pinda on May 15, 2019 16:38:21 GMT -5
Yes. Around the time season 5 or 6 came out HBO offered them 10 seasons of 10 episodes each. But D&D only wanted 7 seasons because they felt like they had been working on GOT for too long. In the end they reached a compromise where instead of 10 episodes for season 7, they got 13 episodes spread out over two seasons. So D&D really fucked it up. They could just have someone else takeover from them, or finish the most successful thing they will ever be involved with in a proper way... but they refused because they were bored. Damn. Like I get it it takes a lot of energy to keep a show going. It’s not a pump and dump show with 20 episode seasons that probably has a whole team of writers. After 8 years I could see why they could be bored or tired. Archer has one guy that writes every single episode and he’s stopping it now after ten seasons. So I understand. But I don’t like it. If it was any other show it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But this had the makings of a masterpiece. If you can’t finish it bring someone in who can. Sure, I understand they may get bored with it... And with most series it would be fine. But this had the potential to become the best TV show that ever existed. It would have an great legacy and they had the opportunity to go down in history as some of the best showrunners ever. But instead they decided to rush to an end so they could start working on their Star Wars trilogy. Basically, they had the chance ot create a masterpiece, but they decided they just didn't want to... It's like if Da Vinci got bored when he was 2/3rd done with the Mona Lisa, so then he just made the last 3rd of it with a pencil and didn't even bother to add any color. That would have been a waste too. Also, they could have gotten someone else to run the series and become less involved themselves. If GOT had been their story, something they had made from scrath, then that would not have been a good idea. But it wasn't their story. There are hundreds of people who are both good writers and are familiar with the story they have been trying to adapt. All they had to do was get one of those people involved, tell them what George told them (or have George explain it again) and the problem is solved. They no longer have to be bored, their reputation as good writers persists, and the show has a proper ending. |
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Levron
Rookie
Itz always good to smile ;)
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Post by Levron on May 15, 2019 17:06:40 GMT -5
But like I'm just honestly fucking disappointed that the dragon didn't take a shit on the red keep.
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Levron
Rookie
Itz always good to smile ;)
Posts: 27
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Post by Levron on May 17, 2019 6:32:33 GMT -5
And yes, she had lost Jorah, Rhaegal, and Missandei in pretty quick succession. But I think her going apeshit would be more justifiable if she had lost one of them during the siege. Rhaegal in particular would’ve been a good one to save to this episode. Let's not forget about getting no more D from Jon. |
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Post by Kenbo on May 17, 2019 9:20:15 GMT -5
And yes, she had lost Jorah, Rhaegal, and Missandei in pretty quick succession. But I think her going apeshit would be more justifiable if she had lost one of them during the siege. Rhaegal in particular would’ve been a good one to save to this episode. Let's not forget about getting no more D from Jon. If she was my aunt I would be put in a tough spot |
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Post by Spidyyr on May 17, 2019 11:01:40 GMT -5
Pretty good analysis.
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Post by Newan on May 17, 2019 12:48:58 GMT -5
Ok so I’m 3 episodes into the new season... it’s ok I guess so far.
But I’m just gonna say... I actually knew Arya was going to be the one that landed the death blow, I think I predicted she would be the key piece since like season 6 when she went full assassin.
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Post by Pinda on May 17, 2019 12:59:33 GMT -5
Ok so I’m 3 episodes into the new season... it’s ok I guess so far. But I’m just gonna say... I actually knew Arya was going to be the one that landed the death blow, I think I predicted she would be the key piece since like season 6 when she went full assassin. Well, that is around the time the writers of the show started predicting it too... |
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Post by Newan on May 17, 2019 15:31:54 GMT -5
Ok so Arya is gonna kill Daenerys, maybe even disguise herself to do it.
In Revelation (last chapter of the Bible), Death rides the white horse. Pretty sure it’s a double meaning for Kings Landing and what Arya will likely do.
And Arya was talking about the faces of death earlier in the season, seems obvious though but not like this season was full of surprises
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Post by Newan on May 17, 2019 15:34:28 GMT -5
Ok so I’m 3 episodes into the new season... it’s ok I guess so far. But I’m just gonna say... I actually knew Arya was going to be the one that landed the death blow, I think I predicted she would be the key piece since like season 6 when she went full assassin. Well, that is around the time the writers of the show started predicting it too... Idk what season Arya was training? Might have been 5 actually. But I know I posted somewhere thst Arya would end up having a large role at the end  |
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it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 