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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:07:20 GMT -5
I'm sort of in the mood for a debate about something related to Star Wars and I think it could be fun if we did these every once in and a while. So, here's my question to argue about: Whose more powerful, Yoda or Sidious? More specifically, who won the duel between the two in Revenge of the Sith? This is my stance on it all:
I've heard a couple times in the past that Yoda and Sidious were considered equals and literally could have gone on dueling a lot longer if they were in a different surrounding. While I think this to be true, I have to say that if I could pick one person that was better it'd be Yoda. For one, he's hundreds of years older than Sidious and therefore as more experience than Sidious. Rex himself even said that experience outranks everything (or something like that). Now, if Yoda was Sidious' age that would be a different story. I'm not sure if he'd be able to beat him then... what do you think about that? Anyway, Yoda has more experience than Sidious and both are equally strong in the force. Lightsaber wise, I might say Yoda has the upper hand. He's smaller and can flip around either and is harder for Sidious to hit. For the duel in Revenge of the Sith, I think Yoda won. I think this simply because, when him and Sidious were locked in the force with Sidious' lightning, they both shot back. Yoda only fell further because he was facing the wrong way. Not only that, but where Sidious landed there just happened to be a hand rail. Where Yoda landed there wasn't, causing him to fly back. And there's also the fact that he's lighter so he'd get shot back a further distance. Also, one more point, but when Sidious shot lightning at Yoda at the end of the duel, you could see that Sidious wasn't using his lightsaber anymore. This, to me, seems like he was disarmed by Yoda. This also backs up what I was saying earlier about Yoda being a better duelist.
Now, that's just my opinion. What's yours? Who do you think is better? Who do you think won the duel? Do you agree with me or disagree? Don't make this post and topic be pointless and tell me what you think!
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:11:56 GMT -5
Poll added!
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Post by Malgus on May 30, 2013 21:16:57 GMT -5
I think Sidious is more powerful. He dueled with Yoda, and he won. Even though Yoda can evade most of Sidious' strikes, he still can't really land any successful ones either. I think Dooku and Yoda are more evenly matched.
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Post by bane on May 30, 2013 21:17:56 GMT -5
Oh my god Potato that was a long post....... please, no one quote that! Anyway, I've always been for of a Sith fan, and this is no exception. Sidious FTW!!!!!!!!!!11
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:21:54 GMT -5
Oh my god Potato that was a long post....... please, no one quote that! Anyway, I've always been for of a Sith fan, and this is no exception. Sidious FTW!!!!!!!!!!11 I can write more if you want me to.
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Post by Star on May 30, 2013 21:22:16 GMT -5
I'm not too sure, but probably Yoda. I have to go to bed now though, so I'll share why I think so tomorrow. Bye.
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Post by Star on May 30, 2013 21:23:23 GMT -5
Also, or got a good debate for the next one of these.
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Post by bane on May 30, 2013 21:26:29 GMT -5
No really, Potato, I CAN'T quote you! The dates on the recent posts are screwed up! I can't post picture or access the Emotes! What's wrong? Help me!!!!!!!!!11 Iz all glitching and going wrong!!!!11
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Post by Namialus on May 30, 2013 21:26:44 GMT -5
Ooooh, I've always had this debate. To me, no one won that duel. BUT Sidious is more powerful IMO because the Sith do not place limits on their powers as Jedi do. They do not control their power as much as the Jedi, so they could do much more.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:27:15 GMT -5
I think Sidious is more powerful. He dueled with Yoda, and he won. Even though Yoda can evade most of Sidious' strikes, he still can't really land any successful ones either. I think Dooku and Yoda are more evenly matched. Hmm, I don't know. Dooku sort of fled during Attack of the Clones and seemed Yoda to be a bit better than Dooku overall. Also, Anakin could beat Dooku, but he was trying to kill him (or at least, he was attacking him more violently than Yoda). If Yoda attacked Dooku as violently as Anakin did in Revenge of the Sith I think Yoda would definitely win. I'm not too sure, but probably Yoda. I have to go to bed now though, so I'll share why I think so tomorrow. Bye. Bye!
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Post by bane on May 30, 2013 21:28:37 GMT -5
Please help me. I'm not good with electronics..... Solve my problems!!!!!!!!11
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:28:46 GMT -5
No really, Potato, I CAN'T quote you! The dates on the recent posts are screwed up! I can't post picture or access the Emotes! What's wrong? Help me!!!!!!!!!11 Iz all glitching and going wrong!!!!11 Have you tried quitting the internet and starting it back up? Or just restarting your computer? This has never happened to me but the forum does glitch occasionally. Tell me what happens after you try that.
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Post by bane on May 30, 2013 21:30:03 GMT -5
I shall, Potato, I shall!!!!!11 and please delete all my random posts if you like, I don't want to spam.
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Post by Namialus on May 30, 2013 21:30:29 GMT -5
No really, Potato, I CAN'T quote you! The dates on the recent posts are screwed up! I can't post picture or access the Emotes! What's wrong? Help me!!!!!!!!!11 Iz all glitching and going wrong!!!!11 Have you tried quitting the internet and starting it back up? Or just restarting your computer? This has never happened to me but the forum does glitch occasionally. Tell me what happens after you try that. This happened to me a few days ago. It'll pass after a day or so.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:31:03 GMT -5
Ooooh, I've always had this debate. To me, no one won that duel. BUT Sidious is more powerful IMO because the Sith do not place limits on their powers as Jedi do. They do not control their power as much as the Jedi, so they could do much more. But it's because Yoda held back his power that he was able to stay calm during his duel with Sidious. Sidious went crazy with his power at the end (force lightning) and sent them both flying back. If they had just reversed spots, Yoda would have landed on the hand rail and Sidious would have fallen to the bottom. So they can't always rely on their power, IMO.
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Post by Namialus on May 30, 2013 21:33:21 GMT -5
Ooooh, I've always had this debate. To me, no one won that duel. BUT Sidious is more powerful IMO because the Sith do not place limits on their powers as Jedi do. They do not control their power as much as the Jedi, so they could do much more. But it's because Yoda held back his power that he was able to stay calm during his duel with Sidious. Sidious went crazy with his power at the end (force lightning) and sent them both flying back. If they had just reversed spots, Yoda would have landed on the hand rail and Sidious would have fallen to the bottom. So they can't always rely on their power, IMO. What else would they rely on?
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 21:35:56 GMT -5
But it's because Yoda held back his power that he was able to stay calm during his duel with Sidious. Sidious went crazy with his power at the end (force lightning) and sent them both flying back. If they had just reversed spots, Yoda would have landed on the hand rail and Sidious would have fallen to the bottom. So they can't always rely on their power, IMO. What else would they rely on? Well, they can't really rely on using all of their powers at once and going overboard. If they can control it like Yoda they'd be able to put it to better use. If Sidious was more controlled during his duel with Yoda he may have had a better chance of winning. But them unleashing all of their power at once can help them (like Vader throwing all the objects at Luke in TESB).
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 21:50:29 GMT -5
I'm going to analyze a lot of this If you don't mind so this may be a long read but let's start of with ROTS fight I guess people could have seen this as a draw but Sidious would have outlasted Yoda in that fight you could tell near the end Yoda was tiring and Sidious was mostly toying with him for the most part when he was throwing the seats in the senate. Though they both mastered numerous forms Yoda mostly used Ataru you could tell by his flips and acrobatics. Sidious used Juyo for the most part which is the deadliest form mostly used by Sith, Darth Maul also used Juyo in TPM when he beat both Qui-Gon and for the most part beat Obi Wan in fair combat. They are pretty equal in Lightsaber combat but Yoda is better from experience and Sidious was a Sorccer not a warrior he focused on the force and learning the aspects of the dark side.
Now looking at there force abilitys, Sidious was considered the master of Dark force abilitys his lighting was unmatched and he was able to transfer his essence from different body's this is also how he survived the battle on endor if you know read anything after episode 6. Both Yoda and Sidious mastered Battle Meditation the ability to manipulate and control a battle to ones favor of the side using it this is also demonstrated at the battle of Endor when Sidious died his battle meditation was also broken allowing the rebels to win against all the enemy forces with the little ships they had. They both had the best foresight Sidious at times was able to see years into the future. Sidious was still unmatched compared to any other Sith Lords in the force. Sidious also possessed some knowledge in the creating life but never figured the entire secret from his master. In the end I would give strength in the force to Sidious.
Now who is smarter overall well it's a tough one though Yoda has 100s of years on Sidious from being alive and gaining experience and knowledge but I still believe Sidious will outsmart Yoda any day. Sidious was able to carefully plan his entire rise of power decades before without error he was able to cloud everyone's mind and he was one of the only sith to successfully purge the Jedi the other times the Jedi have been defeated so bad was the back in the days of the old republic. Though Yoda was wise, Sidious was ore manipulative and overall more smart. And let alone the fact that in every prequel Yoda always has a look of utter confusion on his face.
In the end the end I believe at Sidious's Prime when he took over in ROTS and when Yoda fought him I believe Sidious was much more powerful at that time. The only people I could actually see beating him in a fair fight would be Luke Skywalker who is wildly considered the greatest force user of all time at the time of the new republic. The other person being the Chosen one Anakin that's if he didnt sustain his injuries at mustafar.
So in summary: Yoda: Lightsaber (Though Sidious probably could outlast him in a long period of time) Force: Sidious Intelligence: Sidious Overall: Sidious
I could analyze them for longer but I think this is enough without out going into EU too much.
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 22:02:23 GMT -5
Oh I forgot to say. Your move Potato lets have a real debate rather than just saying someone is better or just voting. I encourage others to join us
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 22:19:04 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to write all that! Well, about your posts on intelligence, Sidious is definitely more manipulative, as all sith are, but I'm not sure if that would come in handy during an actual duel. He should be more focused on coming up with ways to outsmart Yoda battle-wise. Although, battle-wise Sidious was pretty smart during the duel for getting the higher ground against Yoda and throwing the senate pods at him. But after Yoda caught his breath he was easily able to throw one back at Sidious. Not only that, but at that point Sidious no longer had his lightsaber as I already mentioned so Sidious might have went up there only as a defense from Yoda because he couldn't duel him anymore. Also, at the beginning of the duel, Sidious did try to flee from Yoda. So he did fear him.
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 22:27:54 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to write all that! Well, about your posts on intelligence, Sidious is definitely more manipulative, as all sith are, but I'm not sure if that would come in handy during an actual duel. He should be more focused on coming up with ways to outsmart Yoda battle-wise. Although, battle-wise Sidious was pretty smart during the duel for getting the higher ground against Yoda and throwing the senate pods at him. But after Yoda caught his breath he was easily able to throw one back at Sidious. Not only that, but at that point Sidious no longer had his lightsaber as I already mentioned so Sidious might have went up there only as a defense from Yoda because he couldn't duel him anymore. Also, at the beginning of the duel, Sidious did try to flee from Yoda. So he did fear him. I don't believe he was fleeing I think he had a plan but I'm not sure. I wouldn't say he was easily able to throw the senate pods back it took him quite a bit of effort to catch the pod out of Sidious grip and took him awhile to muster the power to throw it back. Where as Sidious was able to throw multiple pods at Yoda at once with little effort. Though Sidious was strong with a lightsaber his speciality is the force. Sidious also sent Yoda flying with one shock of lighting. And I would say Sidious does have alot of Cunning he managed to outsmart all the Jedi for years.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 22:34:51 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to write all that! Well, about your posts on intelligence, Sidious is definitely more manipulative, as all sith are, but I'm not sure if that would come in handy during an actual duel. He should be more focused on coming up with ways to outsmart Yoda battle-wise. Although, battle-wise Sidious was pretty smart during the duel for getting the higher ground against Yoda and throwing the senate pods at him. But after Yoda caught his breath he was easily able to throw one back at Sidious. Not only that, but at that point Sidious no longer had his lightsaber as I already mentioned so Sidious might have went up there only as a defense from Yoda because he couldn't duel him anymore. Also, at the beginning of the duel, Sidious did try to flee from Yoda. So he did fear him. I don't believe he was fleeing I think he had a plan but I'm not sure. I wouldn't say he was easily able to throw the senate pods back it took him quite a bit of effort to catch the pod out of Sidious grip and took him awhile to muster the power to throw it back. Where as Sidious was able to throw multiple pods at Yoda at once with little effort. Though Sidious was strong with a lightsaber his speciality is the force. Sidious also sent Yoda flying with one shock of lighting. And I would say Sidious does have alot of Cunning he managed to outsmart all the Jedi for years. He was fleeing alright. "If so powerful you are, why leave?" At least Yoda was able to catch one of the pods Sidious threw at him. Sidious had to actually jump out of the way and barely got out of the way Yoda threw at him. One of the reasons Yoda had a hard time catching it anyway was because of how fast it was going. As shown, Sidious didn't even try to catch the one Yoda threw because it was going way too fast for him. Sidious may have sent Yoda flying back, but Yoda also sent Sidious flying back while repulsing it. Like I said, if Sidious and Yoda were standing on opposite sides of the pod they were on Yoda would have got onto the hand rail and Sidious would have fallen. While Sidious is cunning and manipulative it doesn't mean he's the best with actual battle tactics, which is a completely different type of intelligence.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 22:35:58 GMT -5
BTW, sorry if a lot of my posts have typos. I make tons of typos while typing longer posts and I'm always too lazy to reread them until after I post them.
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 22:47:48 GMT -5
I don't believe he was fleeing I think he had a plan but I'm not sure. I wouldn't say he was easily able to throw the senate pods back it took him quite a bit of effort to catch the pod out of Sidious grip and took him awhile to muster the power to throw it back. Where as Sidious was able to throw multiple pods at Yoda at once with little effort. Though Sidious was strong with a lightsaber his speciality is the force. Sidious also sent Yoda flying with one shock of lighting. And I would say Sidious does have alot of Cunning he managed to outsmart all the Jedi for years. He was fleeing alright. "If so powerful you are, why leave?" At least Yoda was able to catch one of the pods Sidious threw at him. Sidious had to actually jump out of the way and barely got out of the way Yoda threw at him. One of the reasons Yoda had a hard time catching it anyway was because of how fast it was going. As shown, Sidious didn't even try to catch the one Yoda threw because it was going way too fast for him. Sidious may have sent Yoda flying back, but Yoda also sent Sidious flying back while repulsing it. Like I said, if Sidious and Yoda were standing on opposite sides of the pod they were on Yoda would have got onto the hand rail and Sidious would have fallen. While Sidious is cunning and manipulative it doesn't mean he's the best with actual battle tactics, which is a completely different type of intelligence. Well I have a theory of why Sidious was fleeing I think he wanted to get Yoda out in public so he couldn't escape if he was out in public that would also prove the point of the Jedi trying to kill Plapatine and trying to take over the republic this would show why the empire is in power. Mace and the other Jedi should have confronted Palpatine in public rather than in his private office where no one can see what really happened. Now Sidious also defeated 3 of the Jedi council with ease the reason Mace was such a threat was because he used the form he created called Vaapaad the form relys on the dark side to make quick strikes at your enemy Sidious didnt actually know now to counter this but it should be noted at Mace was also the best blades men in the order at the time. Even though it looked like Mace beat him Sidious was still holding back he wanted Anakin to give in. But in the Senate battle Yoda had to constantly dodge all the pods he threw at him excluding the last one. Why didnt he just throw them all back or at least push them out of his way? In a 1V1 I think there battle tactics could be considered equal but the thing I noticed about Sidious is he seems to plan his moves ahead of time. Now if this was actual leadership on the battlefield commanding a army that's a different story.
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 22:49:01 GMT -5
BTW, sorry if a lot of my posts have typos. I make tons of typos while typing longer posts and I'm always too lazy to reread them until after I post them. I hardly ever reread my posts and I make alot of typos so don't worry about it the only one that will care is the grammar Nazi Nam.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 22:58:51 GMT -5
When Yoda blocks off Sidious from leaving you can tell by Sidious' face that he's worried for his life. He knows Yoda has a chance of beating him and is worried for his life and his new rule. Sidious may have been able to defeat the other members of the council easily, but that's because he caught them off guard (he still would have won though, it just would have take a little longer). Still, if Yoda was pitted against those council members he too would have won. And at least Yoda was able to throw one of them back at Sidious. Sidious wasn't able to do anything when the one came back at him. Instead of pushing it back at Yoda, he just made a jump for it to get away.
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 23:10:31 GMT -5
When Yoda blocks off Sidious from leaving you can tell by Sidious' face that he's worried for his life. He knows Yoda has a chance of beating him and is worried for his life and his new rule. Sidious may have been able to defeat the other members of the council easily, but that's because he caught them off guard (he still would have won though, it just would have take a little longer). Still, if Yoda was pitted against those council members he too would have won. And at least Yoda was able to throw one of them back at Sidious. Sidious wasn't able to do anything when the one came back at him. Instead of pushing it back at Yoda, he just made a jump for it to get away. But that one Yoda threw back also caught Sidious off guard he only saw it till the last second it was probably instinct to jump off he may have been able to push it back but the scene also couldn't be too long so something had to happen as well. And at the end of the fight Yoda knew it was a lost cause he knew he couldn't defeat Sidious over a long period of time. He even admits to his failure when talking to Senator Organa. And I have another theory for why Sidious was in a rush to leave I think he sensed Vader was in trouble and he knew he didn't have much time for a long fight but him trying to leave I think balances it out for Yoda leaving at the end that's why I think this fight was mostly a draw though if they continued to fight I believe Sidious would win. Also another that suprised me but this is off topic from our current Disscusin is why didnt Both Yoda and Obi-Wan go to confront Sidious then confront Anakin? They may even had a chance to save Anakin if they where together.
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Post by Potato on May 30, 2013 23:29:00 GMT -5
Ah, yes, speaking of typos, thank you for correcting the title, Spider. I never type right when I'm in a hurry...
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Post by Newan on May 30, 2013 23:48:08 GMT -5
Well I enjoyed our awesome discussion Potato perhaps we shall settle this tomorrow. I'm also interested in making one maybe next week after people have had the time to view and comment here.
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Post by Potato on May 31, 2013 0:10:09 GMT -5
Well I enjoyed our awesome discussion Potato perhaps we shall settle this tomorrow. I'm also interested in making one maybe next week after people have had the time to view and comment here. Yeah, other people should add in their opinions too. Everyone else is welcome to make more debate topics too if they think they have good discussion potential.
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