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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 12:40:58 GMT -5
Alright finally doing this even though I kinda didn't want to lol. I might miss some things because unlike the previous two, I'm typing this up after some time and the movie is not fresh on my mind. So I really hate this movie because of how much shit it gets wrong and fucks up. It's like if someone who has never seen Star Wars had to make a Star Wars movie. Oh I guess that's what happened though...
As a movie watching experience I will say it might be better than TLJ which was so incredibly boring. But as a Star Wars movie it's bad because as I said, it gets a lot of stuff wrong and that to me is unforgivable if something is official canon content.
Same breakdown as TLJ:
- Characters
- Story/plot holes
- World/lore breaking elements
- Nitpicks
- Things I liked
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 13:26:21 GMT -5
Characters Part 1
Rey - She gets worse and worse as these movies progress. In TROS she is an all-around garbage character. At this point she is basically an action figure with sound effects and has the personality of such. All throughout the movie she is just angry and impulsively swings her lightsaber around at things and people. She is just completely careless and unaware. At the start of the movie, she angrily cuts a tree and almost destroys BB-8.
She starts swinging at Kylo whenever she sees him. Never tries to talk or anything, just instant dueling. And eventually she even kills him... While he is clearly distracted and having a moment of weakness.... No hesitation at all. Even Anakin hesitated before killing Dooku. Rey is seriously supposed to be all of the a Jedi? She has zero Jedi traits. Patience, honor, emotional control, wisdom, humility. Preferring diplomacy to violence. She displays none of that. Look how Luke grew into a great Jedi in ROTJ from the naive, inexperienced kid he was in ANH. Where is Rey's growth?
Another thing that bothers me is she is constantly ditching her so called friends to do some display of "strong independent woman"... Does she even care about anyone else?
Finn - I don't think he even really does anything in this one. He's basically just Rey's cheerleader like most of his screen time is just shouting her name. Pretty sad. Also apparently the thing he wanted to tell Rey was that he's Force sensitive? Yeah cool nothing worth exploring for sure.
Poe - Kinda same as Finn, he doesn't do much either, just follows Rey around. But now they gave him a spice runner background. Aside from how they tried to make him Han 2.0 for no reason and how making the only Latino character a drug dealer is funny, I'm pretty sure this also contradicts his backstory from some comic or something lol
Zorri - Kinda useless and not all that interesting. I think her point was to show Poe isn't gay lol. Actually maybe she's not that useless i suppose she did sort of help move the plot along. Kind of like a Dexter Jettster type character.
Jannah - Useless! Useless! Useless! MUDA MUDA MUDA! Uninteresting again and basically female Finn. I guess because people didn't like Rose, Jannah was her replacement?
General Pryde - Felt like an OG Imperial officer. I guess they had to bring in someone actually threatening because Hux was turned into a joke. I guess he was kinda cool but even cool things are automatically bad by association with the ST so...
Hux - He died doing what he loved, sliding across star destroyer floors
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 13:46:16 GMT -5
Characters Part 2
Kylo - Still a terrible character though I guess in some strange way, writing inconsistency gave him some growth. I guess he actually matures a bit over the trilogy if you compare his TFA portrayal to TLJ and TROS... I guess I've already covered before why he's a bad character. But now there's some new reasons TROS provided.
So everyone pretty much assumed Kylo would be "redeemed" in this movie. Perhaps Anakin finally shows his face to knock some sense into him? Nah Kylo just imagines Han forgiving him. That's... Kinda dumb... He basically forgives himself lol. Which I mean is not inherently wrong I guess... But idk man to me it was basically Kylo finally got tired of running away from home and wanted to go back to mom and dad except they died...
Also I'll talk about Reylo here to not make the Rey part longer. So yeah that's a thing that happened... Let's have the psycho patricidal school shooter kiss the girl he abused. That sends a good message. But to be fair I guess Rian is mostly to blame for giving them tension in TLJ. I think JJ was against it but Disney forced his hand. Great movies right?
Lando - A shell of his former self. Also apparently Jannah is his daughter? Okay i guess..
Chewie - Still their chauffeur but now all his friends are dead. Nice.
Leia - They did her dirty man. First off they don't even let her become a Jedi. She has to stop training because she senses she'll lose her son if she continues. Well that happens anyway. Moving on what is her final act? She says "Ben" through the Force and dies from Force exhaustion (like Luke) just for this one pathetic thing. And her doing that causes her son to get distracted during his duel and get killed by Rey. Niceu niceu! Very nice JJ chan! I get they ran out of Carrie footage so they were in a tough spot. But damn that was terrible...
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 14:09:54 GMT -5
Characters Part 3
Palpatine - Emperor Palpatine... More like autistic retard. Holy shit what they did to Palpatine is just as bad as what they did to Luke. Basically they turned him into a complete dumbass. All of his genius and cunning displayed in the originals is completely gone. This guy slaughtered skilled Jedi warriors, orchestrated a fake war and hid in plain sight under the Jedi's nose to bring about their demise, turned two of their most gifted students against them, and ruled a formidable Empire for years. But he couldn't handle a Mary Sue scavenger from Jakku? Damn.
The first stupid thing he does is announce his return to the galaxy. Why...? Also the fact his broadcast happened in fucking Fortnite is a whole separate thing... But anyway after that, the through the whole movie he is flip flopping his plan which is totally out of character. First he wants the last Jedi, Rey, to be eliminated and will let Kylo become ruler of the Final Order (Why let someone else be ruler?). Then when Kylo betrays him (why didn't he foresee this?), he wants his granddaughter to be Empress, who he first wanted to kill. When she refuses, he wants to kill both her and Kylo to succ their life force or something so he can be the Emperor again. But then I think he wants to possess Rey so he wants her to kill him. Ultimately Rey does kill him and does what he wanted, but she doesn't get possessed...? Brilliant fucking writing.
And the way he dies is from Rey deflecting his lightning back towards him. Why not just stop using lightning bro......... What the fuck. Anyway there's more problems Palpatine's return causes I'll cover more in the next comments.
Anakin - Perhaps it's strange to include someone who wasn't in the trilogy at all. Or maybe his exclusion is the real strange thing. Seriously how does the Skywalker saga end without the main character (almost like TCW shit...)? Not even his name is uttered once. Where is Anakin Skywalker? I mean we hear his voice at the end but what does he say? He tells Rey to bring balance the way he once did. Anakin, just like everyone else, gets a pathetic legacy because of the sequels.
He died for nothing. And this goes beyond Palpatine coming back and cheapening his death and the title of chosen one going to Rey. TROS shows you can use the force to not just heal people but also revive them. This completely undermines and ruins Anakin's tragic story arc. Nice...
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 15:12:26 GMT -5
Story/plot holes 1. So in the beginning we see Kylo searching for Palp (after his Fortnite speech) I guess to kill the threat to his rule. Palpatine reveals the massive Sith Eternal fleet that has just been chilling on Exegol. Um... Why have they just been chilling there? Pretty sure the Final Order is bigger than the First Order based on what we've seen so it could take over the Galaxy much easier. But everyone just waits 30 years doing nothing? 2. Snoke is revealed to be a clone. Again why would Palpatine have a clone puppet rule Empire 2 while secretly building Empire 3 in the shadows? What the hell is going on? And why was Snoke created to look ugly af? He is supposed to turn Kylo according to comics. Surely a better looking guy would make more sense. Also there is no on screen explanation for Palp's return aside from "Somehow Palpatine returned"... Stupid. That's kind of an important thing I feel like... 3. Right off the bat, Palp's return makes the canon contingency order, Operation Cinder, seem stupid. The order makes the Empire destroy itself because Palp didn't want it to outlive him. Why do that if you never died and were just going to make an identical Empire from scratch later. Massive waste of resources... 4. Poe and Finn go to find a spy with knowledge of Palpatine's return. What is the purpose of this? Palp already broadcasted his return, everyone knows. Did they not play Fortnite? 5. The Resistance has rebuilt itself on Ajan Kloss. They now have ships and some more members. But how is that possible if no one wanted to help them on Crait? Lol. They're still pretty small though. So why are they even contemplating trying to find and destroy Palpatine? They have no chance. Mon Mothma and other Rebellion leadership were always hesitant to do stuff even when they had a decent chance. The Resistance is ready to do ridiculous stuff with impossible odds... Lol 6. They go to Pasana to find Lando to help them find the Wayfinder that will help them find Palpatine. Their search leads them to Ochi's ship, which is the same ship that left Rey on Jakku. Ochi has been dead for a while now. How has his ship remained in the same spot for so many years completely undisturbed? And also has Lando been chilling there this whole time? Doesn't seem like the kind of place someone like Lando would stay at. 7. Kylo trying to ram Rey with his TIE fighter is stupid and pointless and definitely a scene made just for the trailers. This is seriously the guy Rey kisses later lmao. The scene with Rey and Kylo pulling on the First Order transport is also very cringey... I'm tired of Rey's tennis grunts man. Also she randomly uses lightning to destroy the ship? I thought lightning was a learned power only true Sith could use. Though maybe that's more of a nitpick. I guess some characters can have special powers. Anakin uses choke as a Jedi, Cal and Quinlan have psychometry, etc. But the thing is this kinda shows why Rey is a Mary Sue. She makes a mistake by accidentally killing Chewie but there are no consequences because a couple minutes later he is shown to be alive. 8. They finally get to Kef Bir(?) where the Death Star ruins are. Rey figures out where the Wayfinder is in Palp's throne by aligning the dagger with the wreckage... This makes absolutely zero fucking sense.... 1. Why is there a dagger that leads to a room on the Death Star? 2. How can it line up with the wreckage? What if the wreckage was different? 3. How does Rey know exactly where to stand? Utterly garbage writing. 9. Palp reveals each ship in his fleet has a Death Star cannon and destroys a planet to demonstrate. This is such a stupid, lazy, and pathetic way to add stakes. It is absolutely insane for Palpatine to try using a Death Star AGAIN. But I guess his lack of creativity is merely a reflection of the writers'. 10. How did Kylo get from Kef Bir to Exegol in an OG TIE fighter? They don't have hyperdrives. 11. How is Lando able to mobilize an entire armada in a couple hours especially when TLJ made it clear no one wants to help the Resistance? 12. Palpatine's bass boosted lightning hands are terrible 13. I think in a tweet, it was confirmed TROS Palp is a clone because the original transferred his essence to a clone on Exegol... Aside from this shit being explained on fucking Twitter, this literally breaks everything. Why does Rey's dad (also a clone thanks Twitter.....) look normal and Palp looks like shit? He even needs Rey's life force to restore himself. Why not just make a healthy looking clone? Also if you can just essence transfer this makes the Rule of Two completely unnecessary.... 14. Movie ends with the last Skywalker dying and Rey stealing the Skywalker name. Then she buries the Skywalker lightsabers on Tatooine, a planet where the Skywalkers only knew suffering and wanted to escape. Awesome. 15. Let's make a list of all the things Rey has stolen by the end of the trilogy: - Anakin's lightsaber
- Kylo's Force abilities
- The Skywalker name
- The Falcon
- BB-8
- The Lars homestead
- Title of the chosen one
Truly a legendary scavenger.
Bonus 16. What happened to broom boy? Lol but truthfully I'm glad he was dropped don't need anymore cringe
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 15:44:48 GMT -5
World/lore breaking elements
I don't think there's much to say for world building because we know these movies suck with that. So I guess I'll just mainly focus on the lore breaking stuff.
1. At the beginning when the TIEs are chasing them, they "lightspeed skip". You can't do this. Jumping to hyperspace requires doing calculations first. Also how are the TIEs able to follow them?
2. I absolutely hate whenever Rey and Kylo do their Force Skype duels. And now they can interact with the area the other person is in? This stuff doesn't make any sense man... And if these two can do stuff like that, how does it instantly kill Luke and Leia?
3. fOrCe dYAd. Wtf is this asspull? It's just so dumb. Why is Rey part of a dyad she is just a random girl. If anything, Luke and Leia being a dyad makes some sense because their twins born to the chosen one.
4. I've already talked about how healing and revive are universe breaking powers. But now they can teleport objects to different locations? Wtf man the Force is now just a super power that you can do literally anything with.
5. All Jedi do not manifest themselves after death, only Qui-Gon and those he passed the knowledge to. How can random people like Adi Galia speak to Rey? How are Kylo and Leia able to become ghosts? Pretty sure that would be an advanced power Luke might not have been able to teach them since they never finished their Jedi training.
6. Finn mentions the war ending on Endor when it actually ended on Jakku. JJ can't even remember his own movie.
7. So if Palpatine has been behind everything, why does his Sith Eternal fleet go back to the OG Star destroyer look instead of maintaining the new First Order aesthetic?
8. Force ghosts interacting with the physical world is so dumb. They can do anything a living person can without fear of dying. Why didn't Luke just go to fight Palpatine if he can hold a lightsaber?
9. The Destroyers not being able to gain altitude without that beacon thing is so stupid...
10. What's the state of the galaxy now? Is the First Order still out there because I feel like they only destroyed the Final Order.
11. Mustafar looks nothing like the planet we've seen. To understand why it's different you have to play a VR video game lol
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 15:57:12 GMT -5
Nitpicks
1. The crawl says Kylo "rages" in search. Kinda weird lol
2. I don't like how Kylo's hair looks in this one.
3. Rey's levitation scene is ridiculous. True Jedi wouldn't show off like that for no reason. I believe JJ originally intended such a scene for Luke but since Rian made him change it, he gave it to Rey...
4. I feel like they added Rey doing the training course because of complaints of her having no training... But she completely breezes through it with no effort anyway lol
5. Why is Rey so upset over Poe damaging the Falcon? It's not her ship?
6. Babu Frik sucks
7. Why does 3PO call the new characters his friends? They are shitting on him for the whole movie.
8. Why did they crash the Falcon on Kef Bir? Could've just landed normally...
9. How does Rey know how to use the sail boat thing? And it's so annoying how she is constantly ignoring her friends and ditching them to go on her own adventure when they just want to help
10. Kef Bir's fields look a little too much like Earth tbh. They have no creativity do they
11. Dark Rey's shark teeth
12. The choreography of the Kef Bir duel as well as Kylo's Exegol duel is so bad...
13. How does Luke's X-Wing on Ahch-To still work? It's been submerged underwater for years... Also pretty sure the wing was the door to his hut
14. Kylo's last words were "Ow". Come on...
15. Leia knew Rey was Palpatine's granddaughter? First how? Second is that not important information?
16. "I am all the Sith and I am all the Jedi" is pure cringe
17. Why does Rey need a lightsaber and a staff?
18. Why does Rey get the Falcon? Shouldn't Chewie get it...
19. Why does Rey get BB-8 he's Poe's droid...
20. Maz giving Chewie the medal was kinda cringe. But it's worse when you know it's Luke's medal that Han sold for drinking money... Wtf....
21. Knights of Ren were useless, didn't do anything, and we don't know anything about them
22. "I don't care if you win, I want Kylo Ren to lose." Dumb
23. They fly now
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 16:02:34 GMT -5
Things I liked Lmao yeah... I mean I guess the Ben Solo scenes were kinda cool. More of Adam Driver as a good guy in the trilogy might've been cool. And his fighting style in the Knights of Ren fight kinda evoked Anakin I thought. It was still badly choreographed though. Also I liked his kintsugi helmet I guess. That's probably it. Terrible fucking movie that is a disgrace to Star Wars
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 26, 2020 16:08:17 GMT -5
This trilogy and especially this movie simply embodies and embraces the phrase "form over function". I'd say it just uses a load of video game logic, but that would be an insult to video game logic. And I don't care what they say about Sidious and the overall plot being planned ahead, they're talking out of their arses. There's a pile of evidence that says no, it wasn't. Frankly this whole trilogy is so dishonest in trying to honour the saga, when it's really just spitting and kicking the stuff George made in order to make way for some cruddy reboot. I mean they pretty much gave the saga such a downer ending, arguably even more of a downer than ROTS from the right perspective and rendered everything before it as pointless. Also, that Vader VR console game should never have just been an obscure VR game. The plot was totally worthy of being a film. Certainly more worthy than this dreck  |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 26, 2020 16:11:09 GMT -5
Maybe 3PO was using next level sarcasm when he called them "Friends" |
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 26, 2020 16:40:39 GMT -5
So to wrap up it’s pretty upsetting the way these movies were made. The writers didn’t play by the rules and generally just had a complete disregard for Star Wars. We didn’t need to continue the saga. ROTJ ended perfectly and beautifully. That doesn’t mean you can’t make more Star Wars stuff but making a direct continuation to ROTJ the way they did just breaks everything. Everything that comes before the sequels is ruined because you know where it will end up. And there’s not much they left with to go forward that could be any better.
People might say to get over it or they’re just movies. But to me and many others Star Wars is way more than that. It’s a magical and wonderful universe that you can escape to. It was made with love and care. Now of course there’s been some good and bad content over the years. But for me, the bad can be ignored if it sticks to established rules and generally doesn’t contradict the lore. The sequels however are so unbelievably bad in this regard it’s kind of hard to ignore them. It sucks knowing all your heroes turned into cowards and failures or died for nothing. It sucks seeing the Force being used in ways that really shouldn’t be possible. It sucks that everything is just bleak and without hope. Where are the positive themes and messages?
So yeah the sequels are not Star Wars if you ask me lmao. There’s no way. They lack the heart and soul of it.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 28, 2020 1:09:22 GMT -5
Part of me wants to watch these out of curiosity but I know I'll just get pissed off and depressed about them.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 28, 2020 14:38:13 GMT -5
Part of me wants to watch these out of curiosity but I know I'll just get pissed off and depressed about them. Dew it Have you watched Solo yet? I would at least watch that I think it's decent |
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 28, 2020 16:44:59 GMT -5
Part of me wants to watch these out of curiosity but I know I'll just get pissed off and depressed about them. Dew it Have you watched Solo yet? I would at least watch that I think it's decent Only TFA and R1 and I hate them in different ways. |
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it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 