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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 13:29:00 GMT -5
Alright whatever let's just go all out lol. I've seen The Last Jedi I think 4 or so times now and each time it is such a chore... Unlike TFA, I really don't understand how people enjoy this one. Even without all the flaws, overall it is just kind of boring... It's a 2 hour long slow car chase, which is what I've seen many people refer to it as. And it is full of ridiculous cringey dialogue and marvel humor. I think even AOTC is less cringey than this lmao.
Also it's such a bad continuation from TFA. Not just because Rian shit on JJ's mystery box setups. But because every character acts nothing like they did before and even the story doesn't really make sense to come after the way TFA ended.
Okay I'll divide it a bit different from last time
- Characters
- Story/plot holes
- World/lore breaking elements
- Nitpicks
- Things I liked
I think I'll do a numbered list of problems for story because wow there are so many...
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 14:01:07 GMT -5
Characters Part 1
Rey - I think this one makes her a full blown Mary Sue. She goes to Luke for training but Luke never actually trains her... All she does is swing her lightsaber at some rocks for an hour (with terrible form btw) and then all of a sudden a little while later she is taking out Snoke's elite guards. How is she able to lift all those huge rocks at the end, again, with no training? Bad character. Not very emotionally complex either. She's always just angry and making weird tennis grunts all the time. And she pulls a lightsaber on Luke?? I don't like that.
And speaking of, all it takes for Rey to turn on Luke is Kylo saying Luke tried to kill him. Is she stupid? She believes some psycho school shooter over the apparent Jedi legend that is Luke Skywalker? Just a couple days ago Kylo killed his dad in front of her, strapped her to a chair and tortured her and spent a good chunk of time trying to kill her. Now she has a crush on him? Alright. And with all the things he's done, it's hard to believe Rey "feels the good in him". But maybe I'll give that a pass. I felt Luke feeling the good in Vader in ROTJ was also a little random.
Another problem is she repeats her TFA arc for some reason. In TFA she has come to terms with the fact that her parents left her and aren't coming back. Now she wants to find them again...
Kylo - Like I said no one acts the way they did in TFA. Though for Kylo it might be better. Overall he seems more calm and composed and less of a whiny bitch now. Obviously his darkness still isn't believable but that's TFA's fault. But it feels like Kylo also has a crush on Rey which is weird because in TFA it seemed like he hated her and wanted to kill her. I would think he'd be mad she beat him and scarred him but guess not. Maybe more of a nitpick. But what's not a nitpick is how does Kylo know about Rey's parent issue? He shouldn't know anything about that. There's no file on Rey in the FO archives or something like that. Only the audience knows about Rey's parent issues.
Finn - Did him dirty. Turned him getting hurt into a joke. Reinforced how he was just a janitor, though I guess TFA did that first. But he was so boring in this one and not interesting at all like he was in TFA. Felt like he was just following Rose around for the entire movie. He didn't really do much.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 14:14:52 GMT -5
Characters Part 2
Rose - Cringe. Not a whole lot to say just a cringey character. Worse than Jar Jar but not worse than Trace Martez. Her stopping Finn from sacrificing himself was the ultimate cringey stupid moment. Literally in the background the First Order is destroying their base and killing everyone as Rose is kissing Finn. It was so sad it was almost laughable.
DJ - Cringe. Stutter was weird. Not a whole lot else but like does anyone actually like this character? Lol.
Holdo - Stupid. She withholds her evacuation plan from the entire crew for no reason... If she had just told everyone, they could've done it faster and she wouldn't have gotten everyone killed. Literally no reason for her to not tell everyone...
Poe - Ruined him. He was a cool guy in TFA but this one turned him into a cocky, impulsive hothead.
Hux - Also ruined. I mean his space Hitler portrayal in TFA wasn't particularly great but they turned him into a complete joke in this one. He gets pushed around (literally) by everyone. And the General "Hugs" and "your mom" jokes were so so stupid... Non stop cringe.
Snoke - Kinda undecided on him. I think people expected him to be fleshed out and explained more but Rian subverts expectations and kills him... If I'm honest maybe it wasn't that big of a deal... Defenders say we didn't know who Palpatine was before the prequels and I guess that's true. I think because we now know Palp's backstory, people just kind of expected Snoke to be fully explained in the sequels. But maybe it's not that important. Not a good character by any means though, just a Palp knock off.
Chewie - He didn't do anything. Reduced to being Rey's chauffeur lmao
Leia - I think they made her too bitchy tbh. And god that space floating scene was beyond cringey.
Admiral Ackbar - His death was so lame and he had no presence in this movie. Very forgettable and obviously didn't do anything. But I wanted to bring up that RJ actually made the physical actor in the suit cry after pretty much ridiculing the character and his death. What an asshole lol. Tom Kane who voices him is also not happy with the way things turned out
Han - He's not in this one but I just wanted to mention it here that not a single person mourns him or is affected by his death. It's actually not even mentioned again after Chewie meets with Luke.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 14:44:50 GMT -5
Characters Part 3
Luke - Big boy Luke gets his own comment because wow... There is so much to cover. An absolute disgrace what they did to him. The guy in the movie is not Luke Skywalker. If Mark Hamill himself believes that, you should too. Let's just get right into it.
Problem 1 - The Exile: Luke made one fuck up and instead of trying to fix it, he runs away, abandoning his friends and family in their time of need, and goes to an island to die. That's just not who Luke is. It's a complete 180 from his character in the OT. "People change" or the fact that he got old is not a good reason for this. It's insulting to see someone who was a childhood hero for many people, turn into some bitter old loser and coward.
And he's such a baby about it too. Like when Rey comes to retrieve him, he is so incredibly stubborn about not leaving his island. Bruh his sister is begging for his help and her husband just died and he still won't at the least see her. What the hell? And then when he eventually starts coming around, he decides Rey needs training first. What? First priority should be returning to the Resistance. Sure Rey needs training but now doesn't feel like the right time...
Problem 2 - The Jedi need to end: What? Once again, did everyone forget episode 6 was called "Return of the Jedi"? Why do the Jedi need to end? This is not believable based on what we know and what we've seen. The logical move after ROTJ is for Luke to build an improved order without the flaws of the original that Obi-Wan and Yoda displayed and without the flaws that created Vader. The fact that Kylo exists means Luke failed and didn't learn anything. And then Yoda in this movie basically had to teach him everything he forgot again. He has to reminds him to "pass on what you have learned" (which he never gets to do). Come on no one wants to see Luke as this pathetic loser.
Worse is the character can't even make up his mind. One moment he is trying to destroy the Jedi temple and the sacred texts but when Yoda does it for him, he's like "bUt tHe SaCrEd tExTs!". Wtf is this movie...
Problem 3 - Attempted murder: This one is most funny to me. I've heard every defense for this but they are all unreasonable. TLJ shows us that the last straw for creating Kylo was Luke briefly considering killing him. But once again, the person in that scene cannot possibly be Luke Skywalker.
"He had a moment of weakness". Wrong. Luke had his moment of weakness in ROTJ when he is going ham on Vader. But once he realizes what he's doing, he stops and throws his saber away. He has rejected the dark side and has learned his lesson. Why would he make the same mistake 30 years later when he is supposed to be older and wiser?
"It was just instinct to take out his lightsaber". Wrong again. Luke is not Rey. He is a lot more passive and calm. It took a lot of coaxing from the Emperor to finally reach for his weapon in ROTJ. It's not a natural impulse for him therefore he realistically wouldn't have done this. There is no world in which the thought of killing his nephew would even go through Luke Skywalker's mind. Especially for something he had just sensed not even witnessed Ben doing.
Problem 4 - Death: He is killed in such a lame way. He dies from using the Force too hard.... Come on bruh. And it's not even a particularly worthwhile sacrifice. He saves like 30 people by giving them like an extra 10 minutes to run away. Honestly they could've easily gotten away without Luke's distraction. Also why not show up there physically? The effect would have been the same. Why do the weird Force projection? It was more suicide than sacrifice. It's all just so shitty...
Luke Skywalker, Mark Hamill, and the fans deserved better than this.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 15:20:52 GMT -5
Story/Plot holes
This movie is seriously boring. But on top of that it doesn't make any sense. Instead of typing out paragraphs about why it doesn't, I'll just make a more concise numbered list with shorter statements.
1. The movie opens with the FO finding the Resistance base on D'Qar. Why.... This takes place like five minutes after TFA. At the end of TFA, Starkiller Base has been destroyed and the Resistance is cheering. How is it that a couple minutes later they need to evacuate? The FO is not licking its wounds but mounting an assault? More importantly, when did the FO find them? Seems like a plot hole to me.
2. They say the FO will control all major systems within weeks. Impossible. Realistically they should not have that control and this goes back to what I've said about TFA and how the FO shouldn't exist. Pretty sure they don't even have a capital, just a fleet or something... How do they control the majority of the known galaxy with one fleet?
3. Maz tells them that the code breaker they need to find is wearing a red plom bloom. How does she know that? What if he isn't wearing one that day? How are they supposed to find him then?
4. DJ being in the exact same cell as Rose and Finn and having the exact same unique skill that they need is so contrived and such a deus ex machina. It's just stupid and shitty writing honestly. He even had the key to open the cell. So what the heck was he waiting for?
5. I think it's funny how Finn and Rose make a big deal about freeing the horses but make no attempt to help all those slave kids lmao
6. The "chase" is so boring and so dumb. How do the shields on the Resistance ship not give if the FO is maintaining a constant barrage?
7. The whole Canto Bight side quest was so useless. It became pointless when they failed and DJ betrayed them. Maybe not terrible writing but since the Canto Bight stuff wasn't particularly interesting to watch, it doesn't feel worth it. Also it could've been completely avoided if Holdo just told everyone the plan...
8. Where is Chewie this whole time? He drops off Rey on the Star Destroyer and just disappears until suddenly coming in on Crait.
9. Luke tells Kylo he won't be the last Jedi. Lol way to go Luke wasted decades trying to get the Jedi to end and then suddenly changed his mind and wants Rey to continue their legacy. Except he's killing himself and he thinks he destroyed all their knowledge so he's leaving Rey to become a Jedi with jack shit.
10. Why is Kylo so mad when he realized Luke is a Force projection? Like it doesn't change much. Resistance is still nearly destroyed, won't be hard to wipe them out now. And he can still kill Luke later but actually he doesn't even need to because Luke killed himself... It's just weird to me because it feels like Kylo is mad because Luke escaped his grasp. But Luke died anyways... It's just kinda annoying
11. No one answering the Resistance's call for help doesn't make much sense. They just destroyed SKB. That's a huge win. There should be more support for the Resistance than ever before.
12. And where is the story supposed to go now? Rian ended it in a place that gives it no where to go. No one is going to help the Rebels. The last hope lies with 30 people on the Falcon. Given this, the FO has pretty much already won because the rebels have zero chance now. Rey is not even close to being a Jedi and Luke left her with nothing to go on. Well I mean I guess she has the "sacred texts"... Idk. Pretty bad ending to a really bad movie.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 15:38:56 GMT -5
World/lore breaking elements
There might be less world building in this one than in TFA idk... There's just nothing interesting. Canto Bight, a casino planet is kinda cool I guess. I think they tried to have some deep meta lecture about greed or capitalism or something... But it's just shallow and stupid and pointless. Also ironic because Disney lol...
They actually had some creative ship designs this time but they actually don't make sense. Those Resistance bombers are fucking stupid. What is the point of them? They are so slow that all of them were instantly ripped apart by the TIEs. Also they use actual physical bombs instead of proton torpedoes or something. How does that work, you know, with gravity and whatnot? Could've just used the superior Y-wings, everything is a copy of the OT anyway.
The Crait Ski Speeders actually don't make sense if you read their wiki page. One would think they're oh they're super old Rebel ships that's why they're so crappy. According to the wiki, they need that little leg for balance purposes and that if they fly too high, they become unstable and could explode or something like that. Makes me think they came out of the factory being shitty.
The laser cannon thing uses "Miniaturized Death Star tech". Great so there is a Death Star in all three of the sequel movies lol. Creatively bankrupt bruh.
Now let's talk about how this movie broke warfare. First, hyperspace tracking. This now makes the strategy of a retreat basically impossible. Whoever enters the battle with superior firepower is now just going to win and destroy the enemy without letting them escape.
Next is the Holdo maneuver. Essentially it comes down to if you can destroy a good chunk of a fleet using lightspeed, why don't people just do that all the time? EZ wins. But on another note another stupid thing I thought was why couldn't Holdo have just used autopilot or something lol. That's what Anakin did in that one TCW episode where he rams his Venator into the CIS ship.
The Force Skype stuff between Rey and Kylo and Luke's projection really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe they're not technically universe breaking powers like the ones in TROS but still, I don't like this power creep that's been happening with the Force. And Kylo feeling water on his hand afterwards really doesn't make sense. And I feel like if Snoke could connect the two without dying, Luke probably could've projected himself without dying as well. Snoke is just clone after all. Idk maybe it's just more nitpicky stuff because I'm salty
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 15:48:32 GMT -5
Nitpicks
1. Luke just throwing away his dad's lightsaber. Completely turned that scene into a joke. It's part of a larger problem.
2. The tiddy milk scene is fucking disgusting I feel like that alone is enough to hate this movie and hate Rian Johnson lmao
3. George had a rule about not showing paper in Star Wars. They broke that with the "sacred texts" being paper books
4. The porgs are terrible
5. When and where did C-3PO get a matching gold arm?
6. Wasn't R2 in this movie just for like 30 seconds and all he did was angrily beep at Luke? Lol. Tbh just scrap the droids at this point they're way too old anyway and don't contribute anything
7. I feel like the choreography in the throne duel is actually kind of bad but sort of hard to notice
8. How does Rey know how to swim?
9. The Yoda puppet is garbage
10. Poe telling Finn to retreat on Crait is ironic because he didn't follow Leia's order to retreat
11. How did Leia feel Han's dice and Luke's forehead kiss when it wasn't real? Also kinda bad to give someone a reminder of their dead husband that's just going to disappear later...
12. They gave up on using the term Resistance and just started saying Rebels
13. Phrases like "Godspeed" and "big ass door" feel too Earth-like and don't really fit in Star Wars
14, Broom boy was cringey and pointless
15. Star Wars movies don’t have flashbacks
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 11, 2020 15:53:46 GMT -5
Things I liked
Really the only thing I liked was the Crait sequence. Probably the most unique planet designs from the sequels. The battle with the red smoke and stuff was really visually appealing. Also when the sun starts to set and the FO shuttles descends to the surface. Very cool shots. But kind of the only scenes I found to be impressive. Everyone always sucks Rian's dick for his beautiful cinematography and technical stuff but I think all that's vastly overrated. The majority of the visuals in TLJ were pretty average imo and like I said for TFA, what I'd expect from modern movies.
Oh and also I have to admit Luke's entrance on Crait and the music was kinda badass... If you ignore all the issues for a moment that is lol. But tbh it's kinda lame there was not a single legit saber duel in this movie.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 11, 2020 19:30:43 GMT -5
Yeah I'm never gonna watch this stupid movie
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 11, 2020 19:38:14 GMT -5
I don't think the "we didn't know who Palpatine was in ROTJ" is a good defense for not explaining Snoke.
The OT was our first foray into the Star Wars galaxy. We didn't know who anyone was. But in the third trilogy, in a galaxy which has been set up pretty well, it really doesn't make sense for him to come out of nowhere.
Like imagine if the PT was the original story and the OT was the follow-up. And imagine then that Palpatine was never seen or mentioned in the first three movies and then just came out of nowhere to be the ultimate bad guy. If the sequels exist in a vacuum, Snoke is fine. But in an established universe that we've spent forty years in, you need to have some sort of good explanation.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 11, 2020 19:39:24 GMT -5
I didn't know Tom Kane was in this movie. Gonna go out on a limb and say he gave the best performance.
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 12, 2020 4:04:07 GMT -5
Nitpicks1. Luke just throwing away his dad's lightsaber. Completely turned that scene into a joke. It's part of a larger problem. 2. The tiddy milk scene is fucking disgusting I feel like that alone is enough to hate this movie and hate Rian Johnson lmao 3. George had a rule about not showing paper in Star Wars. They broke that with the "sacred texts" being paper books 4. The porgs are terrible 5. When and where did C-3PO get a matching gold arm? 6. Wasn't R2 in this movie just for like 30 seconds and all he did was angrily beep at Luke? Lol. Tbh just scrap the droids at this point they're way too old anyway and don't contribute anything 7. I feel like the choreography in the throne duel is actually kind of bad but sort of hard to notice 8. How does Rey know how to swim? 9. The Yoda puppet is garbage 10. Poe telling Finn to retreat on Crait is ironic because he didn't follow Leia's order to retreat 11. How did Leia feel Han's dice and Luke's forehead kiss when it wasn't real? Also kinda bad to give someone a reminder of their dead husband that's just going to disappear later... 12. They gave up on using the term Resistance and just started saying Rebels 13. Phrases like "Godspeed" and "big ass door" feel too Earth-like and don't really fit in Star Wars 14, Broom boy was cringey and pointless 15. Star Wars movies don’t have flashbacks Dude, most of these are no where near being nitpicks, these are genuinely fundamental problems  I think, amongst them all, the saber toss scene is the most egregious part of the film. It basically sums up what this film does as well as display my feelings toward it lol Watching it just gives my inner fan a pang of pain. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 12, 2020 4:05:45 GMT -5
Characters Part 2Rose - Cringe. Not a whole lot to say just a cringey character. Worse than Jar Jar but not worse than Trace Martez. Her stopping Finn from sacrificing himself was the ultimate cringey stupid moment. Literally in the background the First Order is destroying their base and killing everyone as Rose is kissing Finn. It was so sad it was almost laughable. DJ - Cringe. Stutter was weird. Not a whole lot else but like does anyone actually like this character? Lol. Holdo - Stupid. She withholds her evacuation plan from the entire crew for no reason... If she had just told everyone, they could've done it faster and she wouldn't have gotten everyone killed. Literally no reason for her to not tell everyone... Poe - Ruined him. He was a cool guy in TFA but this one turned him into a cocky, impulsive hothead. Hux - Also ruined. I mean his space Hitler portrayal in TFA wasn't particularly great but they turned him into a complete joke in this one. He gets pushed around (literally) by everyone. And the General "Hugs" and "your mom" jokes were so so stupid... Non stop cringe. Snoke - Kinda undecided on him. I think people expected him to be fleshed out and explained more but Rian subverts expectations and kills him... If I'm honest maybe it wasn't that big of a deal... Defenders say we didn't know who Palpatine was before the prequels and I guess that's true. I think because we now know Palp's backstory, people just kind of expected Snoke to be fully explained in the sequels. But maybe it's not that important. Not a good character by any means though, just a Palp knock off. Chewie - He didn't do anything. Reduced to being Rey's chauffeur lmao Leia - I think they made her too bitchy tbh. And god that space floating scene was beyond cringey. Admiral Ackbar - His death was so lame and he had no presence in this movie. Very forgettable and obviously didn't do anything. But I wanted to bring up that RJ actually made the physical actor in the suit cry after pretty much ridiculing the character and his death. What an asshole lol. Tom Kane who voices him is also not happy with the way things turned out Han - He's not in this one but I just wanted to mention it here that not a single person mourns him or is affected by his death. It's actually not even mentioned again after Chewie meets with Luke. I really didn't know Johnson did that. Now I really hope his spin-off trilogy never gets made |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 12, 2020 4:06:12 GMT -5
Yeah I'm never gonna watch this stupid movie You're saving yourself from a lot of pain and suffering |
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I think, amongst them all, the saber toss scene is the most egregious part of the film. It basically sums up what this film does as well as display my feelings toward it lol Watching it just gives my inner fan a pang of pain. 
it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 