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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 8:43:27 GMT -5
Fuck it I'm gonna do an in depth critical analysis thing. Making a new thread because I said the n word in the last one. Each comment will cover a topic and I'll probably do this for the whole trilogy. The goal of this is not necessarily to show why these are bad movies but why it's bad that these are part of official Star Wars canon.
The Force Awakens is a well done deception. JJ Abrams really fooled people into thinking he made a good Star Wars movie lol. If you turn your brain off and just enjoy all the visuals and nostalgic elements and Easter eggs, it might feel like a fun movie. But there are some serious flaws which I feel hurt the Star Wars universe. TFA's job was to set up the story and the time period. It did this in a way that basically ruins the OT
So I think here's how I'm going to break it down:
- Characters - Story - World - Nitpicks - Things I liked
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 9:25:22 GMT -5
Characters Part 1
Rey - With each movie I think she becomes more and more of a disaster. But let's focus on her TFA appearance. She's basically a female Luke but worse. In TFA she was probably the least interesting character and there were several moments where I legit forgot she was in the movie. Let's ignore for a moment how unoriginal her backstory is (we will have to do this a lot...). When we first see her, she's shown on Jakku, alone, scrounging for scraps to survive. I mean sure there's a sort of "charm" in that background. But unlike Luke, she doesn't have a longing to leave she actually wants to stay where she is. So her answering the "call to adventure" is kind of weak. She has no reason to follow BB-8 and Finn.
Rey is often called a Mary Sue. Personally I refrain from using that term because I honestly think if her character was a male, people wouldn't really have as much of a problem... But regardless, they made her too good at things. She knows the Millennium Falcon better than Han fucking Solo, like what? She's never used the Force but instantly masters abilities. I believe she actually "downloaded" Kylo's training according to a book or something but that's pretty stupid and a whole separate thing I'm not getting into right now... She's also never held a lightsaber before but she beats Kylo, a trained duelist, on her first try. Maybe she's just gifted, right? But giving her some flaws would've made her much more relatable and interesting I think. At the very least she needed to lose that duel.
Finn - A Stormtrooper turned good is an interesting backstory for a main character. But I don't think it was handled too well honestly. First of all he acts way too "normal" for someone who was brainwashed and forced into war as a child. Second, he makes zero attempt to help his former First Order comrades. Now I don't think the movie needed him to basically free the slaves or anything. But why not show some hesitation or reluctance when he has to fight the Stormtroopers? Just a small scene showing him feeling guilty or something. We never get this in the trilogy
Poe Dameron - Honestly he's cool. There's not too much to say because he had a pretty small role. He's just a big shot pilot in the Resistance, I think that's fine. It's the next two movies that unfortunately hurt his character
Kylo Ren - Lmao fuck. Kylo has got to be the most overrated part of the sequels. It's another deception. Adam Driver's strong performance mixed with a convoluted and illogical characterization tricks people into thinking he's a deep and interesting character that had a good arc. The reality is he's an edgelord wannabe Vader. He is pretty much AOTC Anakin but he gets a pass for some reason.
Problem 1. Kylo's turn to the darkside is not believable. In fact, Ben Solo turning, while it's not impossible, is highly improbable based on what on screen information we have. He had a strong support net. Han and Leia would have been loving and caring parents. Luke would have been a noble and understanding uncle and Jedi teacher. And to top it off, Anakin's ghost would be around to tell him how the dark side means suffering. Why is he worshipping Vader when he knows about Anakin? Sure the Dark Side can still be tempting. He could've been like "Fuck you Anakin, I'll succeed where you failed". But we are never shown anything like that or given any believable explanation in the trilogy.
Problem 2. He is pathetic. He's whiny and edgy for no reason. Throws tantrums, hates his parents when they didn't do anything, and in general just tries too hard to be like Vader. Vader's coolness was natural. Kylo doesn't replicate it. Also he gets his ass beat by fucking Rey...
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 9:40:54 GMT -5
Characters Part 2
Han Solo - It might feel nice to see Harrison playing cool smuggler Han again. But if you think about it, this is wrong. Han's arc from the OT is thrown out the window. He started as a selfish scoundrel, only in it for the money but eventually joined the fight for the greater good and to help others. He became a respected war hero. TFA completely regresses his character growth by turning him into a washed up old smuggler. He "went back to what he knew"? Maybe that's kinda believable but it's honestly sad. Kylo basically ruins Han. He's now a bad father who walked out on his son and wife.
Leia Organa - She's back to leading a shitty rebellion... She wasn't able to maintain the New Republic, in fact the NR kicked her out because Vader was her father (off screen). She couldn't keep her family together either. This means her legacy is failure. Not too much else to say right now but basically TFA (and the other two) turned our heroes into old losers. Not a fan of that...
Also we never got a single scene with the OG gang together. What a massively wasted opportunity. They killed Han before Luke even saw him. And Carrie and Peter Mayhew are dead irl so there's no chance to reunite the OG actors now
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:06:09 GMT -5
Story Part 1
It's an A New Hope rehash. JJ said he was "playing it safe" but didn't think at all what consequences copying ANH would have on the universe. A bigger and badder Death Star 3 is not very believable. Death Star 2 was already kind of stupid...
So I'll ignore JJ's lack of creativity again to focus on the one thing I hate the most about TFA which I've talked about before. The one thing that sealed the sequel trilogy's fate, the thing that killed merch sales, and interest and inspiration. And that is the "First Order - Resistance war" (can't even come up with a fucking decent name for it...).
TFA made a huge error when setting up the background conflict that immediately ruined the entire time period. Rehashing Empire vs Rebels has detrimental effects on the universe.
First of all the belligerents make no sense. The battered remains of the Empire hide in the unknown regions for 30 years and then suddenly become a galactic superpower possessing sleeker and more advanced technology and equipment than the New Republic? And the NR doesn't do anything to stop them... Like how incompetent are they that they will allow a second Empire to establish itself right under their nose? And because they're so fucking stupid, Leia is forced to make a shitty Rebellion. Again.
So that's the second thing. This "conflict" completely resets everything that happened in the OT. Everything Leia, Han, Luke and the rest of the Rebel Alliance achieved, sacrificed and fought so hard for is taken away in a mere 30 years. Everyone's legacy is failure and cowardice. And that sucks...
TFA undoes the OT. Therefore in my mind, it cannot possibly coexist in the canon
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:19:52 GMT -5
Story Part 2
A map to Luke Skywalker??? How is it possible to have a map leading to a person? I'm assuming it's actually a map to Ahch-To/first Jedi temple. But what if he's not there anymore, what if he left did no one think about that lmfao......
Okay anyway so everyone is after Luke but I don't really get why... Kylo wastes First Order resources trying to find Luke just to kill him. Luckily Snoke is okay with this. On the Resistance side, Leia wants Luke so he might help them? What is one old guy supposed to do? I don't know man. The whole movie is about everyone trying to find Luke. There's no real bigger picture thing. Also why the fuck is Rey sent to find Luke? Originally it was Poe's mission. But Leia sends Rey. Literally right after meeting her for the first time. The reason is so Rey gets training but that's so meta tbh....
Anyway god damn the whole Starkiller Base stuff is so incredibly forced. Like it felt super random when they blew up the NR planets and the Resistance attack on SKB pretty much just felt like them going "Oh it's another Tuesday".
In ANH we get Tarkin talking about how the DS is a demonstration of the Empire's might and how they will be able to rule through fear. There is no talk about SKB or it's purpose whatsoever.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:33:59 GMT -5
World
Where is the world building? It's so poorly done. There's no cool planets, Jakku is just knock off Tatooine, D'Qar is just knock off Yavin. In fact I legit thought they were on Yavin at first lol.
All the designs are absolute garbage. All the ships like X-Wings, TIEs, are exactly the same. The First Order aesthetic is the same as the Empire with a fuckin iOS update. Resistance has the same poor, grungy Rebellion aesthetic. All the aliens are pretty much just beige colored blobs. I don't think theres a single OT/PT alien. So no cool planets, no cool ships, no cool weapons, no cool aliens. Everything just looks like a bootleg from the OT.
They described The Mandalorian as being when you have to play with the left over action figures after your brother stole most of them. Sequels are like playing with only Chinese knock off action figures lol.
Now let's talk about some lore. I notice they mention a bunch of new names and locations but it all feels like throwaway stuff. Nothing is memorable. Also I don't think the Jedi were handled correctly. Rey thinking Luke Skywalker is a myth feels weird. I think you either don't know him, or know him as a war hero. People probably didn't know about his Jedi stuff. And her knowing about the Falcon and Han and 14 parsecs is all just meta stupid stuff...
It's really sad that the Jedi have been wiped out again. Why? Did they forget episode 6 was called "Return of the Jedi". How much cooler would it have been to see Luke's new Order the way it was in Legends?
Aside from no world building, there's also no in-universe politics. Oh that's right politics bad right? Well without politics, nothing makes sense and nothing is explained. We don't know what the New Republic is and it's destroyed before we can. Were we supposed to feel something when those planets blew up? Why am I supposed to give a shit when nothing was shown to establish a connection?
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:49:32 GMT -5
Nitpicks
1. The first line of the movie is "This will begin to make things right". That is some real bullshit. Disney miscalculated the prequels hate and its coming back to bite them.
2. Rey is a scavenger who steals parts. Teedo is the same. Why does she have a problem with Teedo trying to take BB-8? Tbh why doesn't Rey just sell BB-8 it's just a droid and she needs the money because she's poor
3. Han going into lightspeed in the hangar was not necessary at all and in fact I think it might even break some Hyperspace rules but I'm not sure
4. Maz "buttthole eyes" Kanata is ugly af
5. Finn presses the blade length knob instead of the ignition button on Anakin's saber I believe. But I think the other movies and TCW might've also done this maybe not a huge deal lol
6. Poe's black/orange X-Wing is ugly
7. SKB doesn't need to destroy planets when consuming the sun will already destroy a system. I mean Star Wars is not perfect in logical science stuff I will admit but still lol
8. Everyone in the First Order seems like a wannabe Nazi. Not as natural as the Imperial officers
9. I don’t think realistically Phasma would deactivate their whatever just because Finn put a gun to her head
10. R2 just having the entire map the whole time is kinda stupid... There's probably more, I don't remember right now
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:54:10 GMT -5
Things I liked
Not a lot honestly... But there were probably more likeable things in this one than the other two. First of all I think all the new actors were really good, it's just a shame the writing was so bad. Watching John Boyega was really enjoyable tbh. His performance felt like something new and fresh. Sadly they do him dirty in the next two. But he was most interesting to me in this one and felt like the main character more than Rey actually. And the part where he grabs the saber and fights Kylo was honestly kind of epic I can't lie
Some other visuals were pretty decent I guess I don't give the visuals of the sequels enough credit due to my bias. However I don't think they're anything mind blowing or groundbreaking, kind of on par with what I'd expect from movies these days. But still decent.
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 10, 2020 10:58:01 GMT -5
Well this was kind of tiring and probably a waste of time actually... Lmao. Not sure if i want to do this again for TLJ and TROS. Though at least I got to organize my thoughts and put them into one place
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 10, 2020 12:16:30 GMT -5
You basically said what I'd probably say on the matter really I agree though, Disney completely mucked up the estimations of how hated the prequels currently were. The complete back to basics formula just doesn't naturally fit and the meta nonsense gets more and more obnoxious the more times I see it. Plus, the entire conflict is just pathetic with how staged and forced it feels. Everything in it is just two steps back from where ROTJ left off and I cannot stress how nauseatingly insufferable it is to watch that kind of regression. I wanted a New Republic, I wanted Luke's new Order, I wanted new and old worlds, aliens and new, creative ships, but instead we just got an utterly soulless, creatively bankrupt reboot that tries dressing itself up as a sequel. Can we please just live in the parallel universe where George got to make his ST? Please?
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Post by Spidyyr on Jul 11, 2020 11:09:14 GMT -5
Hit the nail on the head.
I put off seeing this movie for awhile so when it finally came on (on an airplane) I was just pleasantly surprised it wasn't awful. I think I even said it was a good movie.
But then I watched it again with family (sorry family) and for some reason it just kinda fell apart. It was easier to see what a lazy product of a film this was. The more I thought about it, the less enthused I was. I latched onto Finn but I kinda realized how dirty they did him by the end and it kinda pissed me off.
Still though I kinda gave it a pass for a while in the hopes that the sequels would build on it in a satisfying way and make it seem like a necessary if bland step to what would be a fantastic trilogy...
Nope.
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