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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 7, 2019 19:59:42 GMT -5
JUNE 15 - 21  It is a dark time for the
Rebellion. Although the Death
Star has been destroyed,
Imperial troops have driven the
Rebel forces from their hidden
base and pursued them across
the galaxy.
Evading the dreaded Imperial
Starfleet, a group of freedom
fighters led by Luke Skywalker
has established a new secret
base on the remote ice world
of Hoth.
The evil lord Darth Vader,
obsessed with finding young
Skywalker, has dispatched
thousands of remote probes into
the far reaches of space.... |
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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 14, 2019 17:23:32 GMT -5
I'll watch this today or tomorrow.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 15, 2019 14:49:16 GMT -5
If A New Hope was a new and exciting way to tell an old story, The Empire Strikes Back was a new and exciting way to tell a new story. In every way, this is a more daring and exciting film.
One of the most obvious differences in this film is how much bigger the galaxy feels. Another is the better-looking production and inventiveness of the sets. One more difference is that the characters feel a bit more natural. Luke feels much more confident. I don't know if it was a conscious choice by Mark Hamill or if he's just gotten better as an actor, but Luke is a lot less annoying here. Carrie Fisher is a lot more solid here as well.
The Battle of Hoth is incredible, though I remember being disappointed when I first saw this movie that the most visually impressive part is at the beginning. Anyway, it still is a really great sequence, especially given the time it was made. There are a few wonky shots but it still works very well. The whole Hoth sequence has a great atmosphere and as I said, really makes the galaxy feel more real than it did in the last movie.
The middle sections are also pretty good and interesting. There's some nice action and tension in the asteroid field. And Dagobah is very interesting and gives us a deeper understanding of the force. These two plots compliment each other well and never let the movie get boring or repetitive.
Everything on Bespin is really strong. The scene where Han is put in carbonate was better than I remembered. It could have been really cheesy or anticlimactic but they hit all the notes just right to make it affecting. Luke vs Vader is one of the best duels of the series. Of course it has a lot of weight behind it and it's set up very well by the rest of the movie but its cinematography is also really well done. The choreography is luckily much better than it was in the last film. It's a great set up and of course a great pay off.
The twist is iconic for a reason and it works very well. We know about Anakin Skywalker and him being Darth Vader makes a great deal of sense but it never at any point seemed obvious. After all, why would Obi-Wan lie about something like that? Anyway, it's a masterful note for the fight to end on. I also really like the next sequence where Leia senses Luke.
The ending of the movie could feel very disappointing as it's one of the biggest cliffhangers ever, but it feels very earned. There's no question as to how far the characters have come since the beginning and while the middle part in a series, the story has taken us on an incredible journey.
As for the changes, I think they are all quite good. Some people may have a problem with Fett being dubbed over but I appreciate adding a connection between the two trilogies. I think the inclusion of windows on Bespin does a great deal to open up the city and again, add a touch of reality.
The movie feels a lot darker than the last one, which on paper is a bit strange as no major characters die. But in many ways this movie abandons the fairy tail. The characters do not work in service of the plot. The plot serves the characters. This is a very good film. With the break out success of Star Wars, it would have been easy to simply retell that story, a tactic that likely would have killed the franchise. We could've had another battle station to destroy among other things, but the film is brave enough to venture in to uncharted grounds, with spellbinding payoff. I give it a 9.5/10.
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 17, 2019 14:25:55 GMT -5
I love Bespin. The windows and outside shots were excellent touches. It's a pretty dope location and I wish it was explored more in visual formats. Also Boba sounds way better with Temuera's voice. I listened to the original guy, he sounds weird
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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 17, 2019 18:36:44 GMT -5
Luke’s line “you’ll find I’m full of surprises” sounds like Anakin.
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Post by Star on Jun 17, 2019 22:33:38 GMT -5
I love Bespin. The windows and outside shots were excellent touches. It's a pretty dope location and I wish it was explored more in visual formats. Also Boba sounds way better with Temuera's voice. I listened to the original guy, he sounds weird It honestly might be the planet I'd want to live on if I could choose anywhere in the Star Wars universe. |
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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 18, 2019 9:59:17 GMT -5
I always found it weird that TCW would steer clear of locations like Hoth, Bespin, or Endor. I guess we got Dagobah though.
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Post by Kenbo on Jun 18, 2019 19:16:48 GMT -5
I always found it weird that TCW would steer clear of locations like Hoth, Bespin, or Endor. I guess we got Dagobah though. Even Tatooine had very limited screen time. I would think they could've done some more stuff with it. Rebels also didn't really show the movie planets if I remember correctly. But man if we saw cloud city in TCW... Idk if I could contain the nut |
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Post by Spidyyr on Jun 19, 2019 4:25:13 GMT -5
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jun 20, 2019 15:35:00 GMT -5
It's crazy how (when I was a kid) I once thought the stuff on Dagobah was mostly boring and dragged out. Must've been out of my mind  |
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Post by Star on Jun 21, 2019 8:28:32 GMT -5
It's crazy how (when I was a kid) I once thought the stuff on Dagobah was mostly boring and dragged out. Must've been out of my mind For reasons like you voiced, this used to be one of the least favorite movies in the franchise when I was much younger. After various rewatches though, it's become my absolute favorite in the saga. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 21, 2019 15:54:02 GMT -5
Before I say anything else I might as well start off saying the obvious. This movie is a masterpiece. It's got its problems, but it's still a masterpiece. Compared to ANH, it feels like Empire is apart of a new era in film making as well as a new era in ambition. Everything, from the locations, the action, the ideas, it all goes bigger and weirder. And yet its scope and scale is smaller, more personal. You can feel it especially in the finale with the firefight/chase amongst the main group and the vicious, visceral duel that 100% blows that awkward light whacking from the last film out of the water. To get its issues out of the way, I'll state them quick. The Falcon crew's time in the asteroid field, or rather their time in the space slug drags a little too long. Also, I'm really not sure if Leia would really go for Han after the kind of arguments they've shared (and that's barring the REALLY savage one in the deleted scenes ). Also, Boba Fett could've been utilised a bit more actively. Other then that, I can't complain. First thing to praise just has to be the special effects. The Battle of Hoth is simply one of the most astounding battle scenes with how it's mostly composed of stop motion and models. That's even before you get to the asteroid chase scene. So many times I constantly pondered that age old question: how did they do that? Then there's the locales. One fun detail I always noticed about this film is that every planet sort of represents the third act structure. You have Hoth for the first, Dagobah for the second and Bespin third. All of them are truly fascinating areas. Echo Base provides far more alluring character than Yavin 4 and it always pains me to see such brilliant design go up in smoke. Dagobah however probably has the most presence of any Star Wars world. It oozes (almost literally) this mystical, somewhat threatening energy. The place being littered with reptiles only adds to the ambience. Despite that though, my heart always belongs to Cloud City, my all time favourite Star Wars location. Every part of it, the lighting, the contemporary design, it all gives it the most visually appealing character. Speaking of character, Empire does some wonders with its cast. Vader and his extra screen time takes no time in adding a new layer of menace, Han and his infamous finger pointing remains as charismatic as ever, though it's fairly clear Harrison's got a more natural grip of the character. That said, he truly defies the odds in winning over Leia. While she does continue her stereotype subverting role as a damsel who's ready to kick ass, there's little added to her here aside from and really I can actually say the same for Han. The reason for that I think is Luke, who gets the lion's share of development. Right from the start he seems more confident, grown into a leader and a proper fighter. However that doesn't stop the movie at all in giving him the kick in the pants he sort of requires. Throughout the whole thing he winds up, attacked by a wampa, nearly chills to death, gets blown out of the sky, fails to fully succeed in his Jedi lessons, has his rear thoroughly handed to him by Vader, hears the most unwelcome surprise and loses an arm in the process. Empire does everything within its power to completely humble Luke in the harshest of ways in order to evolve him forward. It's the test of strength that's required in his hero's journey and it makes him all the more endearing, and relatable for it. Anyway, as for the new faces, Lando's a charisma machine. For what little time he gets, the man makes maximum impact. Billy Dee Williams really does make it look like a walk in the park being that smooth and slick. Of course though, it's Yoda who's the true show stealer. George had every right to try and get Frank Oz nominated for Best Supporting Actor (only to fail thanks to that infamously stuffy Academy). It's such a shame the prequels never give us this particular Yoda, who's as wise as he is sort of adorably cooky. It's thanks to him that we gain a higher learning of the ever fascinating Force and while it retains it's vague nature, he does add new levels of insight as well as a beautiful money shot with raising the X-wing. That's another thing I want to add. Empire Strikes Back is gorgeous. Set design, cinematography and lighting all coalesce into something that reminds you why this was the golden age of sci-fi in film. Alongside its grand, inspiring camerawork though lies a unique sense of danger and foreboding. In ANH it possessed a spirit of breezy adventure and fairy tale. Here, everything is gloomier in feel, a constant need to imbue a subtle, but very detectable dread. The soundtrack works hard in conveying this message. Empire features a much more delicate, wider range of sound than the previous outing. Here, Williams relies a whole lot less on Holst for guidance and finds all sort of genius new tunes. The Imperial March is the obvious choice, sure, but the elegance in Leia and Han's love theme and Yoda's tune that repeats throughout the film in various, yet equally wonderful guises offer more original material that once again proves Williams as a great titan of music. Undoubtedly it is the best score in the OT. To cap it off, Empire succeeds in a time where sequels were thought to never do so. It builds upon its predecessor, heads down new avenues and comes out a better film for it. George taking his hands off the steering wheel slightly only helped it in carving out another iconic masterwork. There was never any doubt, but once again I'll say it. Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars films out there, which both entertains and slightly depresses me. |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 22, 2019 5:23:05 GMT -5
Incredibly I never got round to talking about the twist Shortly put, it never needed to happen. There are already plenty of hooks for the sequel and yet it just feels right for this kind of movie to throw this kind of curveball. Sure, it's pretty clear Vader being Anakin wasn't exactly an idea George had cooked up well in advance (ROTJ really makes this apparent), but it defies the odds of seeming tacked on and undercooked to become a landmark moment in the medium. You can feel its influence to this day, what with almost every blockbuster trying to pull off their own big twist. Canonically it's a little shaky, but creatively it's a stroke of pure genius. |
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Post by Kenbo on Jul 22, 2019 18:32:56 GMT -5
Incredibly I never got round to talking about the twist Shortly put, it never needed to happen. There are already plenty of hooks for the sequel and yet it just feels right for this kind of movie to throw this kind of curveball. Sure, it's pretty clear Vader being Anakin wasn't exactly an idea George had cooked up well in advance (ROTJ really makes this apparent), but it defies the odds of seeming tacked on and undercooked to become a landmark moment in the medium. You can feel its influence to this day, what with almost every blockbuster trying to pull off their own big twist. Canonically it's a little shaky, but creatively it's a stroke of pure genius. It would've been crazy if he said Obi-Wan is your father |
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on Jul 23, 2019 2:34:50 GMT -5
Incredibly I never got round to talking about the twist Shortly put, it never needed to happen. There are already plenty of hooks for the sequel and yet it just feels right for this kind of movie to throw this kind of curveball. Sure, it's pretty clear Vader being Anakin wasn't exactly an idea George had cooked up well in advance (ROTJ really makes this apparent), but it defies the odds of seeming tacked on and undercooked to become a landmark moment in the medium. You can feel its influence to this day, what with almost every blockbuster trying to pull off their own big twist. Canonically it's a little shaky, but creatively it's a stroke of pure genius. It would've been crazy if he said Obi-Wan is your father That's apparently the line David Prowse said when they filmed the scene Either way it was going to make for one nuts twist, but it would've been slightly crazier if it flipped the wise mentor into something of a less morally outstanding person. |
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Post by Star on Jul 23, 2019 14:12:30 GMT -5
Maverick-Jedi-Valen, your review perfectly captures how I feel about this movie. I recognize there are some flaws, but they don't detract from how much I enjoy Empire. I think it's such a significant film in terms of the saga as well as its impact in cinematic history. Add on that I love the Star Wars universe, and this ranks somewhere among my favorite movies of all time.
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it’s been quite a while. I’ve been pretty good, how about yourself? 