|
Post by Star on Mar 25, 2019 10:11:15 GMT -5
The Jedi Who Knew Too Much presents one of the most fun stories on the show for me. Once Ahsoka enters the prison, everything is amazing. Even the opening minutes of the episode provide some good groundwork before the action begins, such as Yoda's eulogy. However, Barriss appearing here was an immediate red flag, since it seemed odd for more than a few lines of dialogue to be given to her unless there was more to her character later on.
The Republic prison is a really cool setting, and the interior is reminiscent of the Empire. It lends to the claustrophobic feeling throughout the episode as Ahsoka dodges clones in the prison complex and in the pipelines as they get closer. Tarkin's scenes in this episode are a great touch, and his holding of Ahsoka's chin like Leia's from ANH was neat. It's a little odd that when Ahsoka sees the key to her cell so soon, she thinks Anakin did it rather than anything else. However, her escape from the prison is so awesome, I can forgive that strange jump in logic alongside how Barriss even orchestrated such a perfect framing of Ahsoka.
The statues of clones in the courtyard as well as that wall with fallen soldier's names provide great details. As Fox, Rex, and Anakin chase down Ahsoka, everything is so exciting. It doesn't let up until the final scene where Anakin is speaking to Ahsoka. This interaction carries so much weight to it, and seeing Ahsoka choose to fall to the Underworld packs a punch. The audience wants things to be okay here, but as early as Fox's refusal for Anakin to visit Ahsoka in prison, the story never gave us the feeling things would actually work out. It was a perfect ending to the episode.
I thought about what to rate this episode for a while, but there's something I can't figure out that's holding me back from giving it a perfect score. Maybe future viewings will change my mind. However, I think it very much deserves 9.5/10.
|
|
|
Post by Star on Mar 25, 2019 15:48:09 GMT -5
To Catch a Jedi maintains the action. There's something aesthetically pleasing to me watching the Council deliberate following Tarkin's message as it storms on Coruscant outside. We also witness how distant Windu and Anakin have become in this scene, something that really ties nicely into ROTS. Although I don't think the Council is fully against Ahsoka yet, it's sad to see only Obi-Wan really take her/Anakin's side.
Watching Ahsoka wander the Underworld is very cool. This episode might give us the most expansive look at it in the entire series. Her escape from the authorities on the subway is exciting, and really builds the other 'world' on Coruscant. Although it's pretty brief, I find it almost as intense as the action scenes from Bounty. Additionally, it's neat to see the clones working alongside the regular police force in the Underworld throughout the episode.
I'm never really convinced Ventress had a part in the bombings, but nonetheless, I think it fits having her in the episode. The dynamic of Ahsoka and Ventress teaming up shortly adds a nice touch. When Ahsoka contacts Barriss again though, that pretty much confirms any lingering doubts from the previous installment that she's clearly involved in the attack on the Jedi Temple. It seems out of place for Barriss to show up unless she's linked to the greater narrative.
Wolffe's encounter with Ahsoka and Ventress is also fun, especially how it's "filmed" as a continuous shot. There were several chances for the clones to stun her and Ventress though, making the clones feel a little silly here. Following this, the action continued in the warehouse after Ventress left. If Ahsoka's call to Barriss still wasn't enough evidence, then knowing someone of the same size as Ventress is after her is surely a giveaway. Maybe the point wasn't to have Barriss really be a surprise reveal, but it seems odd to drag it out so long. Perhaps Ahsoka could've found out here, but I suppose that would complicate things for the next episode.
Regardless, the fight is engaging, and it's a change of pace to see Ahsoka outclassed like this. Wolffe also regained his senses and stunned Ahsoka immediately upon arrival. Like Spider said, this episode ended on a pretty suspenseful note as an unconscious Ahsoka is flown back. To Catch a Jedi was much better than I recalled, and while not the constant action of the last episode, it delivers just as many thrills. Another 9.5/10 for me.
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Mar 25, 2019 16:30:33 GMT -5
It was pretty lucky for Barriss though that Ventress decided to leave when she did. Like what if Ventress had nothing else to do that day and decided to go to the warehouse with Ahsoka?
|
|
|
Post by Star on Mar 25, 2019 18:07:30 GMT -5
Cited by many as their favorite episode of TCW if it's not The Lawless, I think The Wrong Jedi lives up to all the fanfare. When I first watched this episode years ago, I remember thinking it was a very strong episode, but I found praise for it to be excessive. I even thought The Jedi Who Knew Too Much was a better episode than this. I can see how some may still think that, but this rewatch changed my mind.
The Chamber of Judgement scene doesn't take much time, but it covers all it needs to. The views of the Jedi have really been clouded through the galactic conflict and Sith. It shows so well here as once again, only Obi-Wan really has the nerve to stray from the consensus, even if it's briefly before he succumbs to the opinion of the rest. This episode also nicely captures how Anakin feels as he sees his padawan fall from grace.
Anakin's quest during these 22 minutes is very natural and nearly serves as the endpoint of the great progression of his character from the early episodes of TCW to the person he becomes by ROTS. His encounter with Ventress is brutal and almost as anger driven as he was with 'Hardeen' during Friends and Enemies. Of course there are other moments demonstrating Anakin's emotional outbreaks, but these two are the most recent and linked to the Jedi Order.
The clash between Anakin and Barriss is pretty neat. It's not the best offering in terms of duels, but it doesn't have to be. There's a lot of meaning riding on their encounter that makes it maintain our interest and feel important. While it was obvious Barriss was the culprit, how it was officially revealed sufficed. It would've been even better to have it be a genuine surprise, but I'll forgive it for everything else this episode delivers.
Imperial vibes are very prominent in the room where Ahsoka's trial occurs. While we don't see most of it, I like the bits we do get between Tarkin, Padme, and then Barriss at the end.
The ending is what elevates this episode another notch. If Ahsoka had simply rejoined, I don't think this episode would be quite as iconic. However, her decision to leave strikes a powerful note, especially the music that plays as she walks away from Anakin. Seeing her progression in a much more condensed time span only makes this more emotional. It's one of the best moments in the entire series.
Also, Mace's whole "this was your big trial, welcome back" line is kind of humorous for me. I get where he's coming from, but it seems almost like a cover-up for the Order's foolishness.
There's so much to love about this episode. 10/10.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 11:40:47 GMT -5
Sabotage is pretty interesting but there’s a lot of little things I like about it. We see the first appearance of the ETA-2 Jedi starfighter, Cin Drallig, Jedi temple guards, and Cato Nemoidia is a cool battleground I wish we got to see more of. The opening is highly reminiscent of ROTS which one hand it’s kind of cool but it doesn’t really lead anywhere at the same time. I guess it’s just the last adventure Ahsoka and Anakin have together before things go bad....
The Jedi temple is cool, I like exploring it more and seeing stuff beyond the Jedi council chambers. The plot is interesting and the politics are not overdone, it gets straight to the point about protests against the war without dragging the subject on. I also kind of liked Russo, I’m just glad they didn’t bring back that stupid detective from senate murders.
Best part of the episode however was probably the crime scene reconstruction, pretty cool to look at in the current version of the animation. I also really liked the whole mystery vibe and the unique music this episode in particular has going for it.
I guess I’ll say 8/10 for this one, although it could be a 9 but the episode does feel a bit slow once you get through the beginning, and that opening segment didn’t have much relevance anyways despite all the cool stuff in it.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 12:13:38 GMT -5
Hmm the Jedi Who Knew Too Much... while it’s a pretty good episode, there’s some inconsistencies I must address. It makes no sense for Barriss to have gotten close enough to kill Letta, where could have she possibly been? My only guess is the vents if there were any present... but for Barriss to go around and knock out/ kill a bunch of troopers unnoticed, to have also somehow turned the cameras off as well. We saw those ray shields, Anakin wasn’t able to get past them without force. I’m just not sure how these pieces fit together, got to agree with Tarkin on that one.
I do like that Tarkin has a rather big presence in this arc and that he’s also an Admiral now, although he seems to be more than that probably working closely with Palpatine. I also liked the cameo of the separatist prisoners on the monitors, we see Tambor, Poggle and the General from TCW movie. The prison is definitely quite empire like in design, I guess between that and the red guards we know we are close to empire now.
I don’t really buy that Ahsoka wouldn’t go back with Anakin though, she doesn’t seem like a person to Rebel that hard. It honestly seems more in her character to accept his help imo. Also Barriss just suddenly returning makes the villain extremely obvious. While this episode is great for emotion, has excellent music and a fairly engaging plot I think I’m still going to rate it a 8/10. There’s too many inconsistencies here, I just don’t believe Barriss could have done what she did without being noticed by Fox. Unless Fox himself is corrupt but thst seems fairly unlikely.
I wanted to give this one a 9 like you guys did, but it almost has Crisis on Naboo syndrome with how many plot holes there are.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 12:16:38 GMT -5
Well so far Sabotage scored higher than I thought but episode 2 scored lower... this arc isn’t playing well too memeory.
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 12:35:45 GMT -5
Yeah my biggest issue with this arc in how obvious Barriss is...
If they just had her appear a few times since Geonosis, her presense wouldn't set off so many alarm bells.
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 12:39:36 GMT -5
Also where the fuck is Luminara in all of this?
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 12:46:20 GMT -5
Ok I’m just gonna admit it... this arc isn’t THAT good. Maybe it’s the whole mystery plot and that it doesn’t have the same impact past the first watch. But there’s a lot of stuff here I’m questioning. Why does Ventress need to be involved at all? How does Ventress get jumped thst easily? Why is Ahsoka so naive and willing to trust Barriss at her word when she wouldn’t trust Anakin? And how does the ending make any sense... for fuck sakes Ahsoka wasn’t on Coruscant during the bombing and clearly didn’t know the suspects, how can she be accused of the nano droids? And there’s so many coincidences, creature thst looks like Ahsoka to distract Ventress, a munitions warehouse that’s happens to be right next to where Ahsoka was standing,Ventress just happens to be on Coruscant when we see her hanging out on Tatooine all last season, very poor writing imo.
I just don’t like it, this isn’t my kind of arc. Ahsoka has grown on me a lot over the years so I’m not hating on her but the story is just plucked with plot holes. There’s some redeeming qualities though, I like the rivalry between the Jedi and republic in trying to settle this matter, I like seeing the Coruscant underworld and it’s various levels and inhabitants. The whole 1313 reference is cool. The fight at the end is decent even if you can obviously tell it’s not Ventress, the fighting pattern is different.
Although side note, I still wonder if Barriss became an inquisitor... she hasn’t been in any content post Disney takeover.
But yeah I don’t know I’m very mixed on this episode and I just didn’t enjoy it thst much. Like I said it might be the rewatching and not the first time experience but I’m giving this a 6/10 :/ I’m hoping the finale is as good as I remember.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 12:48:45 GMT -5
I think I said somewhere a long time ago that Sabotage might be low key the best episode of this arc... I might have been right
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 12:49:24 GMT -5
Barriss was supposed to commit suicide but they cut that out
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 12:59:19 GMT -5
*sigh* plot hole 5876 of this arc... Ventress was about to turn you in for cash Ahsoka before you convinced her not too, and now she is the mastermind behind all of it? She also didn’t kill any of the clones in the brawl and yet she is the one that killed them in the prison? How would Ventress even know the layout to a republic prison?
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 13:01:49 GMT -5
And yet Ventress senses Anakin?
I’m just in disbelief at this point, it’s a comedy. It has to be,
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 13:32:10 GMT -5
Hmm The Wrong Jedi is very powerful and has perhaps the most emotional ending of any episode (although Fives death is up there). I’ll be honest the first 5-7 minutes of this episode are pretty iffy for me as per my comments above but the rest is quite solid. Like Anakin said the Jedi hearing was nothing but a formality and you can tell throughout this whole episode Kenobi wants to do more, I wish he would speak up instead of staying silent. I’m pretty sure Kenobi and Plo were the two on the council that went against expelling Ahsoka. The court room was cool and a lot of nice cameos, although the whole trial does feel like a sham which it obviously is when Palpatine is involved. Again I don’t think Ventress needs to be apart of this story and she only serves one purpose to make the connection to Barriss which is obvious to the audience. As for Barriss she goes to such great lengths to cover her tracks before this and now she goes full amateur and keeps two red lightsabers in a decorative pot in her own chambers.... it’s almost like she wants to be caught? I don’t really understand Barriss at all in this arc. Random side note but Anakin attempts to give her Padawan braid back however the council practically made her a Knight But this episode has probably the best music, atmosphere, and visuals of any episode to date. I just love the background shots of Coruscant here in conjunction with the soundtrack, absolutely beautiful. Now one last thing to address, Ahsoka leaving the order. While it’s a powerful moment and I understand why she did, it seems pointless. I can’t take away from this episode for my reasoning cause we couldn’t have known but she was planned to be in A LOT of content after this arc which makes her walking away kind of whatever. Controversial opinion I think Ahsoka should have died, yes.... here’s what I would have done. Make Cato Nemoidia a separate 2 part arc to round out season 5 at 22 episodes, have a battle there with Anakin and Ahsoka and then right at the end of that arc have Yoda call them back to the temple as a little tie in to the next arc. Now have a 4 part arc and Ahsoka gets executed at the end of episode 3 (The Wrong Jedi), Anakin goes complete dark side and finds the real culprit (Barriss or whoever and during the fight takes it way too far and severely injured them) and the whole Jedi order and republic gets put in a bad light sending Anakins path to the dark side into a frenzy. Anakins character would change drastically after this event and he would be exactly the type of super conflicted character we see in episode 3. Anakin could even take sort of a back seat for the rest of the show imposing himself to the outer rim sieges (which lasted 6 months in the old EU) to reconcile. We would only see Anakin from this point on in episodes that deal with the sieges themselves. Anyways enough of theory time, this episode gets a 9/10. It’s powerful, with a beautiful atmosphere but the previous flaws of this arc have accumulated to such a great length that it’s hard to give this one a 10. Sorry guys
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 13:34:30 GMT -5
Final score is 31/40 or 77.5%... not as great as I would have thought.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 13:41:35 GMT -5
Kenobi and Anakin would be at each others throats a lot more and instead of Kenobi just being annoyed, he would be genuinely angry at times. Mace would have reason to distrust Anakin. The Chancellor will keep manipulating him and showing Anakin he’s his only true ally. Anakins apparel would become all black and his hair will be long and sort of messy....
I think this could have been a pretty good approach, we’ve said it in the past but it’s hard to see this Anakin becoming Vader tbh. And a lot of the arcs left and stories that needed to be finished didn’t involve Anakin much. Maul, Hunters, Ventress, etc
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 13:53:26 GMT -5
Meme of the Week
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 13:56:38 GMT -5
But yeah I was always on team #KillAhsoka
I also would've liked to see some scenario Anakin kills Barriss.
|
|
|
Post by Newan on Nov 24, 2019 14:21:21 GMT -5
Meme of the Week It’s not as bad as Crisis on Naboo where they had multiple options in that one and took the worst of them all... but it’s a massive amount of plot holes and inconsistencies that continuously build and become super noticeable imo.
|
|
|
Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 14:22:31 GMT -5
Meme of the Week It’s not as bad as Crisis on Naboo where they had multiple options in that one and took the worst of them all... but it’s a massive amount of plot holes and inconsistencies that continuously build and become super noticeable imo. Yeah, i'm still annoyed that most of Barriss' plan makes no fucking sense.
|
|
|
Post by Star on Nov 25, 2019 15:23:31 GMT -5
Killing Ahsoka would've been a great move. Even though I like how they handle her beyond this arc, I think it would've complimented Anakin's character arc beautifully by having her die because of the Jedi Council's disillusionment. We could even see Anakin become more brutal in his combat methods as he descends into a Vader mentally during the Outer Rim Sieges. It would make his quick kill of Dooku even more believable alongside literally everything else he does in ROTS.
If we got the full 8 seasons as intended, I would've liked to have seen Ahsoka's death either as the S7 finale or S8 opener.
However, I still really enjoy this arc, even if the mystery is obvious and Barriss/ Ventress don't work as well as they could.
|
|