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Post by Spidyyr on Feb 21, 2019 19:29:45 GMT -5
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February 22nd - 28th 2019
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Post by Kenbo on Feb 21, 2019 23:04:00 GMT -5
I liked it ngl
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Post by Star on Feb 21, 2019 23:06:50 GMT -5
Ayyy that's my boy
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 9, 2019 1:06:01 GMT -5
Ugh WAC
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Post by Star on Mar 9, 2019 1:11:38 GMT -5
This was a rough one to binge.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 9, 2019 1:27:40 GMT -5
Stolen Separatist Shuttle Count: 6
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Post by Star on Mar 11, 2019 14:54:07 GMT -5
The story of Secret Weapons isn't very interesting to begin with, and it seems even worse compared to the plots we've gotten since S3P2. However, even among some of the more lighthearted concepts in the early seasons, this one is largely bogged down by a cast that is not very fun. Part of that is due to all the characters, barring R2, are new. Yet even as the arc progresses, these characters aren't great.
My biggest issue with this one is the dialogue between Gascon and WAC. Given the other characters can't speak, we're stuck primarily with these two. Gascon isn't terrible, but his dynamic with WAC in this episode is very cringey and hardly any of the humor lands. It's also a little strange to think this crucial task is being trusted with a team like D-Squad.
The Parwan that upgraded the droids was really creepy, which was kind of cool I guess... I did think the zero gravity skirmish was neat, but we got one with Ahsoka and pirates last arc that was much better. Also, the one from the Cad Bane arc in S2 put this one to shame, so it's not like that scene alone saved the episode.
This episode isn't unbearable, but the annoying interactions between characters and a weak plot really drag it down for me. It's definitely one of the poorest offerings of the series for me. If it didn't lead to something more interesting near the end of the arc, I might have rated it lower. 4.5/10.
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Post by Star on Mar 11, 2019 15:10:15 GMT -5
Many fans tend to cite this episode as the ultimate low of the show, but I don't think A Sunny Day in the Void deserves that. It's an incredibly average episode, but the uniqueness of how it plays out makes me kind of enjoy it at times.
Firstly, the opening sequence with the comets is really cool both in theory and visually. Watching WAC and Gascon freak out as they try to navigate through it all while the droids go outside and attempt to fix the ship is intense. At first, you think the droid aspect will be a repeat of TPM, but the moment where they all link together to stay safe is pretty neat.
The animation on Abafar is also really good, even if the setting is extremely bland. I also like the discussions between WAC and Gascon and how they develop throughout this episode. Although WAC is still mildly annoying, it's not nearly as bad. We learn more about Gascon and that his commanding presence is instead a front for his insecurities and lack of experience. It's not totally expected going into the arc, but I think it works.
There's moments in this episode that use the humor quite well, such as WAC commenting about Gascon jumping off the ship to kill himself. Speaking of which, while the episode keeps a light tone, there are some mature themes of suicide, going insane, and the difference (if any) between organic and artificial intelligence. The episode dwells just enough on each to make it interesting without becoming overbearing. Even though not a lot happens in the episode, its pacing is pretty good.
I appreciate the risk the team took with this episode. It's unlike anything we've seen on the show, so in that sense, I don't mind it. I wouldn't want another episode like it, but just this instance, I find it to be kind of a cool concept. 6/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 11, 2019 15:42:32 GMT -5
I’m not sure they could have pulled this off but I think it would at least be a lot more ambitious if they had D-Squad be completely non-vocal. (No WAC or Gascon) Granted, this probably could only work for an episode or two but it might be kinda cool.
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Post by Star on Mar 11, 2019 16:53:33 GMT -5
Missing in Action unfolds predictably, but it's still better than the episodes that preceded it. The settlement has a lot of detail, despite largely being monochromatic. Things pick up once we are introduced to Gregor. His first interaction with Gascon was effective, but when they encounter again, it's cool to see him regain his memory and learn about who he was. It does seem a little easy for Gregor to remember everything, but it's needed to keep the plot moving.
It's weird how evil they make Mr. Borkus, but I always find it funny how rude he is to Gregor and says, "You're just a dishwasher!". Another interesting fact is that Dr. Evazan owned a cosmetic surgery joint in Pons Ora, but it went out of business by the time D-Squad was there.
The final fight with Gregor and the droids is fun to watch, but it feels a little like a last stand in a video game. However, it does have a significant impact when we realize Gregor isn't going to make it and Gascon later talks about the heroics of him. I imagine that if TCW hadn't been cancelled, he would've come back maybe for one more episode/ arc around S7 or S8.
This episode is pretty straightforward, but it's pretty good overall I think. I'll give it 7/10.
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Post by Star on Mar 11, 2019 17:13:30 GMT -5
I think this episode has a pretty cool concept, but there are some things about it that don't flow well with the rest of the arc either. Starting with what I liked is that the setting of an almost empty Republic cruiser feels unsettling, especially given the mystery of what plot the Separatists are hatching. Also, the scene with the buzz droids was really well-done and held a frightening tone. The climatic explosion of the ship was also perhaps the best explosion they've done on the series, and watching the effects of it on the members in the meeting was stunning.
One major issue I had though was Gascon. His character had been built up nicely the whole arc, but here he seems to switch personalities a lot. Initially, he seems to not care about anything, since he's accomplished his mission. Then he comes across as an idiot, since he can't deduce that the ship is a bomb or what its target could be. It takes time for him to eventually become noble again and want to save the lives of the droids on board as well as members of the Republic. The end shows him becoming friendlier with D-Squad too, until he realizes he likely will be working with them the rest of the war. It's kind of frustrating, since Gascon was starting to grow on me, but then this episode gave a conflicting progression to his character.
I also don't like that the attention all went to R2 and Anakin at the very end. It felt like a tacked on piece that wasn't needed nor did it tie into the arc super well. Another thing that didn't make much sense was the holograms on the bridge. It was pretty cool yet eerie, but I don't see what purpose they served, since I doubt anyone would've seen them.
I still like Point of No Return, there were just some aspects that didn't make the most sense. Another 7/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 11, 2019 23:16:57 GMT -5
Secret Weapons is an episode I actually thought was worse upon rewatch. I always had it written off as a good episode that would've made for an enjoyable standalone, but honestly, that isn't the case.
This is not a good episode. The plot itself is very uninspired and the characters are honestly some of the show's worst. We've had episodes where I am indifferent to the cast, such as the younglings in the last arc or the cadets on Mandalore. Now imagine taking those casts, removing Ahsoka, and doing it for ninety minutes and you start to see the problem with so many long arcs. Gascon is written like a cartoon character and WAC is just the worst. I'm not even sure why he's needed as R2 is fully capable of piloting a shuttle. Hell, I wish they had just reprogrammed some more battle droids and had them be the pilots. IF those droids were good enough to get into the Citadel then they'd have no problem doing this mission.
The doctor at the beginning doesn't really land for me. He's just too cartoony just like WAC and Gascon. Even the highlight of the episode, the 0-G battle was not worth sitting through the first fifteen minutes.. Like Star said, this show has already done that and done it better.
I wouldn't hate on this episode as much if it didn't lead to the most tedious arc in the history of the show, but it still would be pretty bad. No effort here. No creativity. It feels like a show treading water. 3/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 11, 2019 23:31:49 GMT -5
A Sunny Day in the Void is certainly better than the episode that preceded it, so that's something, right?
There certainly is more to like here. The Star Tours inspired opening sequence is definitely quite well done. As for the rest of the episode, it's actually hard to really put one label on it. The episode does bring up some interesting themes, which I have to give it props for. It certainly takes risks, which puts it above the paint-by-numbers first installment. I admire them putting forward an episode like this. I only wish it could have been done with better characters.
It's not as slow as I remember, and WAC is certainly more tolerable here. Hey, maybe that's character development. This is not one of my favorite episodes. I get what they wanted to do... But it shouldn't have been these characters, this time, or as the mid-season finale. It isn't the worst thing ever, but it slows, even more, a season that really needed a kick forward. 4.5/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 11, 2019 23:49:03 GMT -5
Missing in Action is undoubtedly the peak of this arc. Maybe it wouldn't stick out as much in a better arc, but here it certainly does.
Like Star says, we know exactly what is going to happen so that hurts it somewhat. Gregor seems to remember extremely quickly. He isn't a particularly deep or complex character but he suits his role well enough. The droids almost kinda fade into the background but honestly that's fine. I really don't have that much to say. It's a very fine episode.
This is a pretty at par episode but in this run, it sticks out as a high. I'll say 7/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 12, 2019 0:28:34 GMT -5
Point of No Return is quite similar to the ending from the last arc. It's definitely a good episode but it doesn't feel like it's worthy of the three episodes of build up.
There are things I like here. Buzz Droids. Yay. They were effectively creepy here. I like the setting as well. It's a cool concept that's once again bogged down by weak characters.
If you want an example, look at BZ's death. It's played as one of the most tragic moments of the show's history but it's laughable how little of an impact it has. They even play the Evel Piell funeral theme(the same one Fives would get) and it's just so so unearned. Gascon is more of a dick here than he was in the previous two episodes so it's a bit weird. I think this arc could have been salvaged if he and WAC got some convincing character development. But in the final minutes, they feel exactly the same as they were in the first episode.
The explosion scene is definitely a sight to behold though R2's sacrifice is unconvincing for obvious reasons. Maybe they could've had WAC do it instead but honestly I'm sick of talking about this. 6/10.
Just like with the Younglings, nothing feels really accomplished or even worthwhile. We're following characters that we've never seen before and won't see again. And none of them are particularly interesting and some are straight irritating. These two arcs feel very much like Filoni just padding out the seasons because he only had enough good ideas for about half of it. It feels arrogant to an extent. Like they know they'll get eight seasons so they can throw some crap in the middle seasons. It just feels like wasted time.
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Post by Star on Mar 12, 2019 8:13:16 GMT -5
I also thought I'd enjoy Secret Weapons more than Void, but I was shocked at how poor of an episode it was. It's one of my bottom 5 of the series for sure, and if I chose to rewatch those, I wouldn't be surprised if it lowered further.
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Post by Star on Mar 26, 2019 8:51:04 GMT -5
Well, I decided to watch Secret Weapons another time. I'll lower it to a 4/10. I can honestly only think of one episode I like worse for certain (Downfall of a Droid), and then two others I feel are equally as bad (Corruption arc). Senate Murders is also pretty poor, but I like it marginally more than these.
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Post by Spidyyr on Mar 26, 2019 9:39:47 GMT -5
Well, I decided to watch Secret Weapons another time. I'll lower it to a 4/10. I can honestly only think of one episode I like worse for certain (Downfall of a Droid), and then two others I feel are equally as bad (Corruption arc). Senate Murders is also pretty poor, but I like it marginally more than these. I have a soft spot for Senate Murders.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 10:59:45 GMT -5
Honestly I am surprised you guys disliked Secret Weapons so much... I didn’t think it was THAT bad tbh, honestly I do think it would have made an ok standalone episode instead of a tedious 4 part arc just to have some fan service moments in the last 2 episodes of the arc.
But this ain’t the first time droids have “betrayed” the separatists, you would think this gimmick would get old. Literally R2 posed as a separatist in a pirate tank in the previous episode. We really don’t even see the seppies use astromechs expect for R3 but he was a spy in season 1.
Also this episode just ruins the cool factor Kalani originally had, I haven’t rewatched Onderon arc yet but I do know that Kalani was a high point back in the day of its release.
Overall though Gascon wasn’t as bad as I remembered but WAC is kind of meh, I did find his corporal joke funny the first couple times. Then it got old.
Anyways I’ll say 5/10, could even be a 6 if it was a standalone but yeah I think there was some decent aspects here and a cool concept. Also was this the mid season finale or was it Sunny Day in the Void? I think it was the later which is another reason why I hated that episode back in the day. To be fair other than like Carnage of Krell this show had weak midseason finales (Rebels did those way better at least).
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 11:05:23 GMT -5
Think I’m just gonna binge this arc today, might try and binge an arc everyday after work until I’m finished. Kind of wish I kept watching when you guys did but school and work was so busy back then.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 11:33:54 GMT -5
A Sunny Day in the Void is well pretty void of meaningful content. Just imagine the amount it must cost per one episode and it’s being spent on stuff like this I couldn’t get over when one of the producers said this was an artistic achievement... I’ll say the same thing when I first watched it, you could basically make this planet on PowerPoint. Now I did enjoy TPM callback when they repaired this ship in space, actually the first part before the crash was decent but the planet was just so boring and I just remember the built up frustration of season 5 being fully vented here not just by me but the community in general. At this point in time there has been one great episode in the first half of season 5. Back in season 4 we had the decent Mon Cala arc, Shadow Warrior and the superb Umbara arc. I always said TCW followed a super weird trend that the even number seasons were far better than the odd numbers, weird coincidence but it holds true imo. Anyways this episode gets a 3/10, I just don’t really find the appeal. It’s a boring planet with some meh characters but with a few decent pieces of dialogue here and there. If R2 wasn’t around to give this arc some familiarity then I think everything would just fail tbh.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 11:36:04 GMT -5
It’s weird but if this was Rebels then this would score higher for me. Idk I expect more stuff like this on Rebels, I don’t expect nor respect stuff like this when it’s season 5 of TCW and we’ve seen it’s full potential already. Maybe that’s an odd standpoint but TCW deserves to be held in higher regard.
A 7/10 on Rebels for example is lower than a 7/10 on TCW I guess as an example. Guess it worth keeping that in mind for the Rebels rewatch
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Post by Spidyyr on Nov 18, 2019 12:29:39 GMT -5
It’s weird but if this was Rebels then this would score higher for me. Idk I expect more stuff like this on Rebels, I don’t expect nor respect stuff like this when it’s season 5 of TCW and we’ve seen it’s full potential already. Maybe that’s an odd standpoint but TCW deserves to be held in higher regard. A 7/10 on Rebels for example is lower than a 7/10 on TCW I guess as an example. Guess it worth keeping that in mind for the Rebels rewatch Im gonna try to rank by the same standard (I want to combine the two shows for an ultimate ranking)
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Post by Spidyyr on Nov 18, 2019 12:35:23 GMT -5
Honestly I am surprised you guys disliked Secret Weapons so much... I didn’t think it was THAT bad tbh, honestly I do think it would have made an ok standalone episode instead of a tedious 4 part arc just to have some fan service moments in the last 2 episodes of the arc. But this ain’t the first time droids have “betrayed” the separatists, you would think this gimmick would get old. Literally R2 posed as a separatist in a pirate tank in the previous episode. We really don’t even see the seppies use astromechs expect for R3 but he was a spy in season 1. Also this episode just ruins the cool factor Kalani originally had, I haven’t rewatched Onderon arc yet but I do know that Kalani was a high point back in the day of its release. Overall though Gascon wasn’t as bad as I remembered but WAC is kind of meh, I did find his corporal joke funny the first couple times. Then it got old. Anyways I’ll say 5/10, could even be a 6 if it was a standalone but yeah I think there was some decent aspects here and a cool concept. Also was this the mid season finale or was it Sunny Day in the Void? I think it was the later which is another reason why I hated that episode back in the day. To be fair other than like Carnage of Krell this show had weak midseason finales (Rebels did those way better at least). SDITV was the mid season finale. And for Season 4 it was Slaves of the Republic.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 13:08:58 GMT -5
The last part of Missing in Action is definitely the highlight of this arc although the inclusion of a clone commando in the show now, in this very specific episode, does feel like total fan service. The Delta Squad cameo made sense but it just seems out of place here despite the action sequences and music being great. If this story had to be dragged out into a 4 part arc I guess the stuff here is pretty decent I suppose.
I really want to give this episode an 8 but idk I’m just so puzzled by a sunny day in the void and the fact that those 22 minutes just don’t feel all that connected to Secret Weapons or this episode that much. I’m going to give it a 7/10, it’s definitely better than anything we’ve seen so far in this arc but overall it does feel like a lot of fan service and just dragging out a story for the sake of it.
Also I don’t agree that Gregor needed to be revived, not putting that one as a negative on Rebels cause they planned to revive him in TCW... could have just gave us new commandos, although I think that might have been the purpose of the bad batch in a way.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 13:51:18 GMT -5
Point of No Return is about as good an ending as we could have asked from this arc. But what about these obvious plot holes, why did they not question how the separatists acquired that republic shuttle on the surface. How did nobody know a fully functional venator and all its crew go missing, and someone on the crew had to be important if they were invited to the conference. And they mine thst much rihidonium? That ship had to have been missing for weeks...
The explosion was cool and seeing the cameos in the war room was also pretty neat, also that first person clone view was pretty unique. Pretty sure this is the first time we see Buzz Droids as well, although the super tactical droid further gets devalued here, Kalani could have been so cool as a unique character.
Anyways gonna give this episode a 7/10 as well, I think the whole arc is devalued by A Sunny Day in the Void. Is it fair to judge episodes based on the rest of the arc though? I think so. I think this is a perfect example that arcs are not always beneficial and sometimes hurts and devalues the content in them. Almost any one of these episodes with a few changes to the plots could work as standalones or at most a 2 part arc but dragging it on as a 4 part arc is just unnecessary and overall boring, remember back in the day these 4 part arcs were literally eating up a MONTH of content for the show, maybe longer if there was a 2 week gap in there or the mid season like with this arc.
The clone wars showed us that it’s arc format works and can tell incredible stories but I think arcs like this D-Squad one show us that standalones or the Rebels format can work for many things as well.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 13:53:01 GMT -5
I have very good memory and thus nostalgia plays into my reviews and ratings a lot. Probably why I like Rebels more than some cause OT was my first experience. But with a lot of these clone wars episodes I just can’t help but think back to watching Friday nights on Teletoon over 12 hours before everyone else and going on the comments to give impressions to 90% of people who haven’t watched yet...
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 13:54:24 GMT -5
Ok this is pretty bad... overall arc score... 22/40 or 55%.
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Post by Newan on Nov 18, 2019 14:10:12 GMT -5
Looking back at some of my rankings I rated season 1 very high compared to some of you and I think that justifies my reviews here. Trespass, Lair of Grievous, the Jedi Crash arc, etc all work cause they are short bursts of content. Imagine trying to make trespass in a 4 episode arc, it just wouldn’t work.
Episode 1: Exploring the planet Episode 2: conflict with Talz Episode 3: what separatists show up to fight on some backwater moon? Episode 4: More random battles,
idk it’s just hard to think of stuff for a 4 part arc with very little to expand on from episode 1 of that and that’s basically what they did here. Bullshit their way to the end, while some of it is definitely entertaining it’s just the same point for the Jedi kids arc I made that they are taking random ideas from all over the place and throwing them together and forcing them to be a story.
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Post by Spidyyr on Nov 18, 2019 14:11:43 GMT -5
Even switching the placement of D-Squad and Younglings could have made for a much better mid finale. Test of Strength isn’t great but at least it ended on an interesting cliff hanger.
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