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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 24, 2019 16:03:14 GMT -5
Ah yeah. Three and a half episodes about Obi-Wan faking his death to live as a bounty hunter. Potato is Awesome yeah. And then half an episodes that's not really about that at all for some reason. *sigh* Let's get on it.
January 25th - 31st 2019
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Post by Newan on Jan 24, 2019 16:37:01 GMT -5
Still need to catch up, just been very busy with work and school.
Might skip the previous arc for awhile to try and get done umbara then jump to this maybe
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 24, 2019 17:59:59 GMT -5
I’ll probably watch A Friend in Need today and then try to binge this tomorrow.
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Post by Kenbo on Jan 24, 2019 21:41:03 GMT -5
Rako was ugly
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 27, 2019 0:47:01 GMT -5
Deception is a really strong opening. It takes what could be a ridiculous story and makes it work. It seems like a strange idea to show the death of a character we first saw die thirty-five years earlier. But it works because it focuses on Anakin's anger. And we know that'll still be there once he learns the truth. How Obi-Wan disguises himself seems a little out of place as well. Like with all of the technology have it seems possible but it's a bit strange to think we've never seen it before now.
Anyway, the episode plays it straight but is gritty enough that nothing feels strange. It is interesting to see what Obi-Wan has to go through in order to infiltrate Dooku, the choices he has to make. It's a kind of story you would never expect Obi-Wan in.
There isn't a whole lot to say about this one. It does a good job with all it sets out to do and leaves you wanting more.
It's a killer start. 8/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 27, 2019 0:57:59 GMT -5
A lot happens in Friends and Enemies but somehow it doesn't feel rushed. Things start up right away on Nal Hutta and the ship crashing. We have a series of pretty good sequences involving Obi-Wan, Bane, and Eval. And then over on Anakin's side, we get some of my favorite Palpatine material. I remember Ian Abercrombie died right before this episode came out so it was great to see here how good he could be.
I really like how much happens in this episode. We get Anakin vs Rako/Obi-Wan, something which I really didn't think would happen until the finale.
I wish I had more to say about this arc but I'm saving it for the last episode...
This one is solid and really enjoyable. 8.5/10
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 27, 2019 1:06:00 GMT -5
The Box is an episode that really surprised me. At its core, it is really simple but it is just executed so well.
I like all the different tests. The second especially is quite frightening. I like how as they progress the growing respect Bane has for Hardeen. It's an interesting development. And at the end, Bane actually saves Hardeen. I know it's not like they're good friends or anything. And I'm sure Bane wouldn't have cared if Eval killed Rako, but he knew he deserved a better death than being dropped into flames.
And speaking of Eval, I was surprised at how sinister he became here. Yes, we knew he was a really bad guy but he had done very little compared to the other big players in the last two episodes. I never expected him to have a grudge match against Hardeen but the way it happened was really cool.
The episode is really simple, really brutal good. Every episode up to this point has been strong but this if the highlight.
It's a 9/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 27, 2019 1:22:16 GMT -5
Crisis on Naboo. Motherfucking Crisis on Naboo aka How to Make a Whole Arc Feel Pointless.
Okay, first what I like. My favorite part is Anakin and Obi-Wan's conversation about the council. It shows a huge turning point in Anakin's relationship with the order and it actually feels justified. In the first few seasons, Anakin seemed so chummy with the council that it almost seemed like a continuity error. But here they show how his new attitude is not from a leap back in maturity, but due to repeated offenses on their part. More on that next season.
But wow. This is not how you finish an arc. They spent sixty-six minutes setting up Obi-Wan's journey to become a bounty hunter. We see him maneuver against some of the most dangerous people in the galaxy and seemingly earn their trust against all odds. But no, let's just throw that all away. And then we'll have Anakin vs Dooku for the third fucking time this season, a fight you were tired of before the show started. Why? Why trade in a really cool premise for something that excites no one and can only end in one way?
There should've been something of more consequence that happened between Obi-Wan and the hunters. Maybe Eval should've died. But they are captured after one of the briefest fights ever and then we just forget about them.
Dooku showing up later is a legitimate surprise. You wouldn't see it coming. It is done well but it is just out of place. Anakin was an important part of the arc but he shouldn't have stolen this episode from Obi-Wan. They slapped an ending onto this arc halfway through the episode just to do Anakin vs Dooku Take 6. Wow.
By itself, it is not a terrible episode. But as the close to an arc, my god it's bad. It could've been one of the best endings to an arc but I think it is probably the worst. I didn't know how low I would go on this but as of where we are on the rewatch, I can easily say it is my least favorite episode.
3/10. Bad.
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Post by Star on Feb 12, 2019 23:21:57 GMT -5
I watched this arc (2 of the episodes twice), but I'm trying to sit on it for a bit so I can sort out how I feel on some things.
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Post by Star on Feb 12, 2019 23:23:27 GMT -5
Also, do you guys pronounce is Ray-ko or Rah-ko? I used to always go with the first, but now I interchange them.
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Post by Spidyyr on Feb 13, 2019 0:24:52 GMT -5
Also, do you guys pronounce is Ray-ko or Rah-ko? I used to always go with the first, but now I interchange them. I always say Ray-Ko.
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Post by Star on Feb 13, 2019 14:40:37 GMT -5
This arc starts with a bang. Right away we get thrown into the heart of a Separatist plot, and Obi-Wan "dies" a few minutes after the start. It's a bit strange Obi-Wan's body isn't burned like how Qui-Gon and Anakin were, but maybe there's more lore to that I don't know. Regardless, it's interesting to see Anakin react to his mentor's death due to their close relationship. Also intriguing is watching Ahsoka respond to Anakin's whole handling of this.
The technology we see utilized to have Obi-Wan transform into Hardeen is really cool, even if it's strange how it isn't incorporated anywhere else in canon. It's always kind of funny seeing Obi-Wan lose all his hair, too. I also wonder what Obi-Wan thought of how Anakin treated him so roughly in the back room of the cantina, whereas most other Jedi would not have been so physical.
Deception really picks up in the prison. I like how it was used in the context of this story, but another episode dealing with prison life would've been really cool also I think. Bane's inclusion really makes it more entertaining, and hearing about the major influence Moralo Eval possesses is neat. Inserting Ben as a codename is a nice way to tie into ANH, and I enjoyed seeing Bossk and Boba still maintaining a close companionship.
The actual prison break is really fun to watch, but I wish the guards had put up a little more resistance. Seeing Obi-Wan in this kind of situation, especially having to fight clones, is crazy to think about. I think the writers handle his disguise as a bounty hunter very well. He blends in, but I don't think there's any moments where he compromises his values either. The competitive nature between Bane and Hardeen is also great.
Overall, Deception is a pretty unique episode for the series, and I like its execution. However, parts of it clearly feel like nothing more than set-up, so that holds it back in some regards. I'll go with 8/10.
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Post by Star on Feb 13, 2019 16:44:30 GMT -5
I went into Friends and Enemies not remembering too much about it. Perhaps the most impressive thing about it is how much content it delivers in 22 minutes. There's lots happening with the trio on Nal Hutta, Anakin gets some great moments, and then there are some Jedi Council scenes. Even more amazing is that this episode does not feel rushed. I'm not sure how, but this episode just pulls it off perfectly in that aspect.
Hardeen, Bane, and Eval all bounce off each other so well. Every scene with them is stellar, and exploring Nal Hutta with them is a blast. The planet looks really good, and we see much more of it compared to it's appearance in Hunt for Ziro. So much is going on in the background of all the scenes too, ranging from the characters to settings. To make it more exciting, we experience it all from the perspective of bounty hunters, something not common in TCW.
This episode does a good job continuing Anakin's emotional ride following Deception. Palpatine plays into Anakin's feelings perfectly, making their relationship by ROTS even more believable. When Anakin and Ahsoka arrive on Nal Hutta, he is fittingly brooding, and it offers yet another glimpse at how emotionally driven he is compared to the other Jedi.
I'm glad Yoda and Mace realize they should tell Anakin the truth in this episode, since I wouldn't see the point of them hiding it any longer. It's interesting to see the lengths they'll go to ensure their plan succeeds.
From an action standpoint, this episode is great. The opening crash landing is exciting, as well as the betrayals by Bane and later Hardeen. The last few minutes are very exciting as we see Bane vs Anakin, Hardeen vs Anakin (including Anakin kneeing Obi-Wan in the crotch), and Ahsoka join the fray briefly. It feels very gritty and I think Moralo interrupting the fight was a smart way for the writers to end the skirmish.
The more I think about this episode, the more I like it. We get some of the best dialogue with the bounty hunters here, so many things happen, there's great character development for Anakin and even Palpatine, plus Nal Hutta makes for a really cool location. I watched this one twice to get a better idea of how I felt about it, and I think I enjoyed it even more during my repeat viewing. It may not be as consequential as some other episodes, but it's super fun nonetheless. I'm going with 9.5/10 for this one; it hits near perfection for me, something I didn't anticipate going in. However, I can't quite bring myself to award it a 10 like the conclusions of the Dathomir and Mortis arcs, or Plan of Dissent.
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Post by Star on Feb 13, 2019 17:03:18 GMT -5
The Box is one of the simplest episodes in terms of plot, but it winds up being one of the most enjoyable to watch. It plays out almost like a video game, and there's a good element of brutality throughout. All the hunters are diverse and cool, with Dooku's introduction of them all being a pretty iconic moment for the arc.
Moralo takes an interesting turn in this episode. Beforehand, he had admiration for Hardeen, but given how easily Hardeen defeats the Box's challenges, Dooku questions Eval as a leader. By the end, we get Moralo almost completely against Hardeen. I also liked how Bane began to trust Hardeen more as the episode progressed, and it culminated in him saving Hardeen from falling into the flames.
I think that this episode is partly why Crisis on Naboo is disliked by many. Beforehand, Anakin and Obi-Wan/Hardeen were kind of sharing the main plot, but here the attention fully shifts to the bounty hunters. Consequently, we expected that to continue until the arc's conclusion, except that wasn't the case...
Other than that, this one is pretty straightforward. Regardless of it's impact on the arc or series as a whole, it's a fun one to watch. 8.5/10.
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Post by Star on Feb 13, 2019 18:10:26 GMT -5
I went in worried how I'd view Crisis on Naboo, but I came out not so disappointed actually. I know most others here disagree, but let me explain.
As I previously stated, the focus of this arc was shared between Obi-Wan/Hardeen and Anakin. While there was a good balance between the two in first half of the arc, The Box made the decision to narrow in on the bounty hunter plotline. This made viewers believe the finale would continue that, but instead it's split. Yes, I agree that the actual attempt to kidnap the Chancellor was somewhat underwhelming, but a lot of that is because much of it was shown through Obi-Wan's perspective. What we do get is still exciting, but the bounty hunters didn't put up as big of a fight as we had hoped. Had it not been for the other half of the episode, I'm sure the writers would've given us a grander kidnapping attempt.
However, the second portion of Crisis on Naboo shifts attention back to Anakin. He realizes the Jedi Council acted behind his back, and it was in such an extreme fashion. He's expressed doubt about the Council prior, but this really gives us a look at something huge they did for him to become more disenchanted with the Jedi. Palpatine knows this. Both in Friends and Enemies as well as here, we get scenes of Palpatine trying to push Anakin closer to the Dark Side. In a way, these events roughly parallel the beginning of ROTS, since there's a plot to kidnap the chancellor followed by a duel between Dooku and Anakin. A lot is different in between of course, but the basic structure is there.
One could interpret Palpatine/Sidious as testing Anakin in this arc following Obi-Wan’s “death”. He sees Anakin as very powerful and emotional, making him easy to influence. The duel between Anakin and Dooku was a way to see who was the stronger apprentice. At this point, Dooku still is, but this fight was the turning point for them I think. Other than their encounter in The Lost One, they don't meet again until ROTS, where Anakin was then stronger. On a side note, I like the visual reference to TESB with Dooku sitting at a dinner table waiting for them.
Essentially, the whole point of this arc is to further Anakin's character development via Obi-Wan faking his death and going undercover. While the Obi-Wan aspect got a lot of attention, Anakin was the one who changed the most. In that sense, this always was Anakin's arc, but there was a really cool additional plot involving bounty hunters. Anakin's story just gets a little overshadowed due to the bounty hunter story being so engaging and even taking center stage in The Box. That makes it a little disjointed when we get to the end of Crisis on Naboo, but the main idea and its effects going forward are really important.
This is probably the weakest episode of the arc, but I think it ties up everything pretty well. However, I do see how it was somewhat of a jarring shift to focus back on Anakin when it seemed everything was building up to the bounty hunters being the main focus until the credits. If that's what you wanted, I understand disliking this episode. While that would've been nice, I do appreciate what they did instead. I'll give it 8/10.
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Post by Star on Feb 13, 2019 18:11:48 GMT -5
Also, I've seen a few memes lately of Cad Bane's line "What? It's a nice hat." from The Box lately. Interesting how that timing worked out.
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 5:32:46 GMT -5
Deception is one of the best first episodes in an arc ever,. it feels completely connected to what comes next and it only takes a few minutes at the start, which is engaging still, to get the ball rolling. Everything about the stsrt is pretty light hearted and fun but then it gets dark pretty quick at the funeral. Honestly it’s pretty harsh on people like Padme and Satine. I liked the medbay scene a lot as well, I’m guessing that tech isn’t really available to the general public for obvious reasons and might only work on certain species anyways.
The prison was different then what we normally see, although I noticed a lot of repeated models being used on the inmates. I do feel like Hardeen/ Kenobi gets Evals attention a bit too easily and then dumbass just starts spitting out his entire, highly illegal, plot to kidnap the most recognizable person in the galaxy. I guess the council somehow told the guards to give Eval a very long leash in prison. I never really understood why the clones took orders from him.
The return of Bane was actually surprising to me the first time I watched this arc, I think that was kept somewhat hidden although I guess we knew he would come back eventually. Boba and Bossk cameos were also cool and I’m glad it was shown on screen for their escape since we clearly saw on screen in season 2 of them entering the prison.
Oh and let’s not forget how hard it must be on Kenobi to watch Bane kill all those clones and he just has to accept it and run along with them. Anyways I loved this episode when it came out and I love it now, this could be a top 3 arc in the show for me, at the very least probably top 5. I’m going to say 9/10, other then a few odd parts like the facial tech never being shown before or Eval taking interest in Hardeen super fast I don’t really have much problems with this episode. And those points aren’t super important anyways.
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 6:16:05 GMT -5
Friends and Enemies is the episode that released when I started frequently posting on sw.com so a lot of good memories from this one but it’s also an absolutely fantastic 22 minutes. Like seriously what a journey, this is a perfectly paced episode that has 2-3 episodes worth of content when compared to some other arcs imo.
I love all the locations, cameos, and variety of models on display. We never really got to see much of Hutta past the swamps so it’s nice to get a more detailed view of one of the galaxys biggest outlaw havens. There’s a ton of unique models and species and the pawn shop is housed with a ton of Easter eggs. Oh btw the first ship they buy is the same design as Bossk’s ship “The Hounds Tooth”. I really enjoyed seeing Coruscant used throughout the episode as well, and that shot with the Coruscant background when Palpatine is in the office is beautiful. This is the first time we really get a good look at Coruscant since season 3.
The relationship with Bane and Hardeen is pretty cool, they go from hating each other to a loose mutual respect near the end when they save each other from Anakin and that only further gets expanded on in the next episode.
Seriously I’m just amazed with the pacing, it’s fast but perfect and never stops entertaining. This low key could be my favorite episode of the show up to this point in season 4 and it’s definitely worth of a 10/10 imo.
So far I’ve given perfect scores to Ghosts of Mortis Plan of Dissent Carnage of Krell Friends and Enemies
Season 4 truly is the best season imo. Friends and Enemies might be my personal favorite of thst list although Ghosts was probably the best story. However all of them have their own reasons for being great
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 6:17:19 GMT -5
Just thinking of what I have ahead, there’s 4 episodes that have a high of chance of getting a 10 from me I think and 1 episode that might be borderline....
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 6:49:50 GMT -5
Man I really like the Box as well... it’s such a simple concept with very little in the way of scenery change throughout the episode but it’s intriguing and you are always not quite sure what to expect from the next challenge on your first watch. This was also the time when things like The Hunger Games were super popular so I’m sure some of the inspiration comes from stuff like that.
I like the mix of hunters and how Dooku gives them all a little introduction, and of course I especially like Embo. Probably my favorite hunter in the show tbh. Although it’s kind of funny they let Embo have his hat, that thing is a lethal weapon he could have literally started taking people out.
My biggest sort of concern with this is that Hardeen/ Kenobi is just Mr. Knowitall and we don’t see much of anyone else being productive. The sniper challenge was kind of odd, I always assumed Kenobi was using the force there but I’m not sure if that would give him away or not. Then again this is a time period where force sensitivity is accepted and perhaps Dooku wouldn’t be alarmed by it. Unlike within the Empire for example. But that Sniper challenge should have been for Embo or the acrobatic female. Although I guess it kind of had to be Hardeen cause he’s “The Marksman of Concord Dawn” even though it’s really Kenobi.
Anyways overall it’s a great episode, a bit filler like in some respects though since I could basicslly guess who would win. We knew Bane and Hardeen would win. Embo was like a 99% sure bet and just seeing a new hunter with an awesome model, yeah I think we all knew the flying squid would win lol. The acrobat is the only one that could have possibly been replaced, but the others sort of looked like losers besides the Sellath I like his species from KOTOR.
Anyways this episode gets another solid score, 9/10. Wow this might be the highest the first 3 episodes of a 4 part arc will ever score for me... so far it’s a 28/30 score.... but I don’t think Crisis is gonna do much favors. Guess we shall see but I’m going in with very mixed feelings based on memeory.
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 7:31:18 GMT -5
Oh god Crisis on Naboo, I’ve spoken in length about this one before. Star made a good point above though that Anakin and Kenobi somewhat split the arc in the first half before it became all Kenobi in “The Box”. In fact after Anakins conversation at the end of episode 2 with Yoda it was a good place to cut Anakin out until the end of the arc.
The first part of the episode ain’t too bad, the warehouse scene is pretty cool and I liked seeing all the Jedi council make an appearance at the start. Seeing Naboo again is nice when it’s in small doses here and there. I especially liked the sunset on Naboo, always liked that version of the map on BF2 as well. Also why the fuck are there so many Nemoidians at the festival....
But basically there’s so many ways the episode could have gone but instead we are left with all this buildup just for a Anakin and Dooku fight for the third time this season. This plan should have worked imo, we should have seen the Separatists prisoners go free but instead it just happens sometime during season 6 off screen as Wat Tambor is in the Bad Batch (Start of season 7). I’ve already talked in length about this one before like I said but one of the worst parts is the communication between Dooku and Sidious. Dooku has to be fully in on this plan Sidious has, he must also know there’s some kind of plan for Anakin but he just goes along with it. Both Anakin and Dooku could have easily killed each other in that fight. I don’t know it just really confuses me sometimes, there’s obvious plot holes at times when there’s anything around The Chancellor. Also Kenobi gets to the tower at mid day and Dooku was listening... why didn’t he take action earlier?
Also I guess Embo doesn’t really get captured cause we see him in like two episodes. Maybe they even let him walk cause there’s probably not much case for him other than doing his job and he didn’t really try and resist... but I get the feeling both Embo and Bane worked together and escaped while being transported by clones or something.
Anyways this is a hard one to rate, while the fight at the end is cool and sort of unexpected it’s in no way how this great arc should have ended. It almost makes everything seem kind of pointless. I’m going to give it a middle of the road score and say 5/10. Which is in no way awful but it is 4 points lower than anything else in this arc. The episode is just super disappointing but it’s not the worst content ever and for the most part it’s kind of entertaining. Idk I could give this anywhere between a 4 and a 7 depending on the day but like I said it’s hard to rate....
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Post by Newan on Nov 23, 2019 7:32:22 GMT -5
Final arc score is 33/40 or 82.5%.... disappointing finish for the arc after 3 great episodes.
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Post by Spidyyr on Nov 23, 2019 8:28:29 GMT -5
Really tho a Nemodian is probably the worst disguise Bane could've picked.
it almost would've been smarter to pretend to be a Duros that isn't Cad Bane.
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Post by Spidyyr on Nov 24, 2019 14:29:35 GMT -5
I fully expected going into "Crisis on Naboo" that we were going to see Tambor and Poggle get released.
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