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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 10, 2019 17:08:37 GMT -5
Here's where the fun begins.
January 11th - 17th 2019
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Post by Newan on Jan 10, 2019 19:44:39 GMT -5
Garbage arc. Garbage all around. Wish the previous episodes could have been 4 instead.
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Post by Newan on Jan 10, 2019 19:45:42 GMT -5
Thinking I’ll binge the whole arc tomorrow since I’m off from work and school.
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Post by Star on Jan 10, 2019 19:55:07 GMT -5
I watched this arc twice the past week. It's all very good obviously, but the tricky part is sorting out how I rate the episodes among one another.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 10, 2019 20:16:15 GMT -5
I will probably binge this arc tonight. I’ve been looking forward to this.
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Post by Newan on Jan 10, 2019 21:15:26 GMT -5
Yeah this is one of the few arcs I can continuously watch and still enjoy, I think I always find something new on it since it keeps me engaged.
I just really like that we see the Republic vs Organics for once instead of droids, although I wished the clones touched on that more. Funny enough I think we see more organic species fighting alongside the CIS then we do with the republic since the republic is always represented by clones
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 1:58:54 GMT -5
Just watched the whole thing. Yeah this one will be hard to rate. It’s probably the most consistent arc of the entire show. And it almost plays out like a movie.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 2:04:54 GMT -5
I can’t tell you how many times I watched this arc in 2012 lol.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 13:11:33 GMT -5
We get a concise but effective intro to the situation at the start of Darkness on Umbara. I love seeing the brief meeting at the start as well as Obi-Wan. It was odd not having him for the first 6 episodes of the season. The next several minutes play out like LAPR, but changes things up enough to make it just as exciting, if not better. There are so many excellent choices with the cinematography and animation, especially as we shift from one scene of the battle to the next. It's amazing how well this episode captures the scale of the Umbara campaign.
The ambush in the trench is cool, but it doesn't make much strategic sense for the Umbarans. I don't get why they didn't just start shooting versus resorting to a mechanical bug. Either way, the moment is intense up until the airstrike occurs. Another cool feature of this episode is how we get introduced to the important clones throughout this episode in ways that feel natural, whether it was Fives speaking up during the briefing or Dogma in the trench.
When Krell shows up, there's a sensation of excitement. The notion of the clones working under the command of someone other than Skywalker is strange yet cool, and given their reactions to Krell's visit, we know he's a major Jedi. Everything from Krell's stature to his voice immediately sets him apart from most characters on the show, particularly when he begins to dehumanize the clones via production numbers.
My main complaint with Darkness on Umbara would probably be with Krell though, since he seems a tad too abrasive. I know he softens up a bit by the end, but it seemed like the writers tried too hard initially to make us dislike or distrust him. However, seeing him command in such an aggressive manner is pretty cool to witness, since most of the Jedi strategies we follow on the series clearly don't use this method.
As amazing as the initial assault on Umbara is, the scene of the clones walking up the road to the capital as they question Krell's strategy is so great to watch. The sudden attack by the Umbarans here is also very dark with some surprisingly mature moments. As aforementioned, Krell does ease up a little, and when he does, it's so satisfying. It makes the audience willing to give Krell another chance, despite how assertive he was toward Fives just moments earlier. I'm not always a fan of endings that occur in the middle of an action sequence, but I think it works well here.
The animation continues to impress throughout this arc, which says a lot, given the previous episodes all looked stunning. I had a tough time trying to figure out how to rate this episode, but I did my best to compare it not only to the subsequent episodes, but other highly-rated episodes by me (mainly from S3P2). In the end, I think this deserves 9/10.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 13:12:58 GMT -5
It's also interesting to wonder what Palpatine's reason for summoning Anakin was. I'm not so sure if he knew it would result in Krell becoming involved in Umbara or not, but the coincidence is interesting. Either way, it demonstrates the close relationship the two had.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 13:40:58 GMT -5
Back when this arc first aired, I always viewed The General as the weak point of the story. This is no longer the case for me. This episode is essentially nonstop action, and it's execution is impressive. Walter Murch, editor of Apocalypse Now, directed this, and through the camera angles and way the action unfolds perfectly demonstrate how he knew what he was doing. One might not think it possible after the last episode, but here we get action sequences that are some of the most intense not only in the arc, but the entire show.
I love the unique technology the Umbarans possess, not only because it makes sense given the size of the universe, but also because it shakes up the formula for combat. The centipede-like walkers are frightening in their own way and pose a major threat to the clones, but even more impressive are the Umbaran MHCs. Something about seeing these technological terrors decimate the clone forces in such an intimate and brutal way is breathtaking to view. Furthermore, the screaming clones being dragged off to the side as more clones rush in to take their place captures the battle so well. Having these moments juxtaposed with Krell standing atop the gorge watching it all happen while still being displeased makes it all the more powerful. On a side note, I liked the quick shout-out to Sergeant Appo.
As Krell communicates with Rex while he requests for backup, there's a shot at the end of the call on Rex's helmet. Despite it being expressionless, you can just visualize what Rex looks like underneath. In this episode, Krell is much better. While we don't see him as much, I think they toned down him being a jerk just enough to make him more interesting and believable. Another side thought, but when he was talking with Obi-Wan at the beginning, I liked how the clones all took cover from an oncoming missile while he stood there and glared at the clones as if they were cowards.
The General gives us more insight to how the clones feel, and while the majority of the main clones clearly question his authority, I think Dogma represents a good number of the "background" clones that are very loyal. Dee Bradley Baker does a wonderful job making them all sound like their own person, while keeping just enough in common to ensure them being clones seem real.
It was fun to see Fives and Hardcase conduct their stealth mission, and I liked the little insertion of Solo's quote from ANH. Watching the two steal the ships was entertaining, especially as they struggled to take flight. Having Rex's plan succeed is all the more satisfying knowing Krell hated it. It's still interesting to see Krell be genuinely surprised when it does work though, since he seems to have never worked with a group as resourceful and determined as the 501st.
This episode is a little light on actual plot, but I can mostly forgive that, given what it delivered. Once again, I struggled to decide what to rate this one, but ultimately, I'm going with 9.5/10. This is kind of a weird score to give, but I think it's a notch above most every episode I've given 9 thus far, yet still not a perfect 10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 14:24:06 GMT -5
It's also interesting to wonder what Palpatine's reason for summoning Anakin was. I'm not so sure if he knew it would result in Krell becoming involved in Umbara or not, but the coincidence is interesting. Either way, it demonstrates the close relationship the two had. I think it's funny that Fives almost got killed by Clones in this arc, and ultimately it would've happened because of Palpatine.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 16:19:47 GMT -5
Darkness on Umbara has a breathtaking opening. It is excellent in setting up Umbara as the Vietnam of the Clone Wars. The world itself is a sight to behold and the landing sequence looks like straight up hell. Seeing what looks like a thousand clones storming the hill is one of the most powerful visuals of the entire show. The sequence alone blows "Landing at Point Rain" out of the water. The tone is also better for this sort of episode, not falling back on Legolas-Gimli style kill games. The entire ridge sequence is also quite well done. Really dang brutal and intense. I like seeing all the Umbaran technology. It really makes this arc feel unpredictable and much different from anything was have seen before.
I am sure the episode could have pulled off twenty-two minutes of visuals and heroic moments, but the direction it goes in is I think much stronger. I really like what this entire arc does for Captain Rex, starting here. This episode challenges Rex in ways I never could have expected, degrading him and putting him into situations where he must choose between the mission and his brothers. Let's be frank, Rex has been a bit of a blank slate in this show. Aside from the one-off "The Deserter," how much have we really learned about him? Sure he's respected, tough, a friend to Anakin, but in many ways, he was essentially the 2008 version of Captain Fordo, just kinda the guy who looks cool and somehow makes it through every battle. But here we finally learn who Rex is, and I really appreciate that.
Fives also gets to shine here. Though part of me wishes we could have seen Echo's reaction to this situation. In fact, all the clones are pretty well done here. This episode incorporates moments to remind us of a few old ones as well as introduce new ones, something I wish "The Citadel" could have bothered to do. I have to give major credit to DBB as he convincingly makes all of these characters feel very different.
The ending may seem a bit weird in relation to the whole arc, but I think it makes sense. At that point, Krell was dealing with a defiant Rex. But by conceding some respect, he is able to quiet Rex down for the time being and manipulate him into doing his bidding. It's actually quite clever and it does bring the audience more onto Rex's side.
This episode kicks off the arc really well. The pacing is good. Maybe it feels over a bit too fast, but it's a good thing here as it leaves you wanting more. This arc brings a whole new level to the show, asks complex questions, and has a really good understanding of its many characters. Easily a 9/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 17:30:54 GMT -5
The General is an excellent followup. In the previous episode, one half was big battles, while the other was more character work. In this one, things are integrated together more. I think this episode has the best battle scenes of the entire arc. As much as I love the landing sequence of the last episode, things are kicked up to eleven here. The centipede sequence is just insane. One of the coolest things the show has ever done. The other battle scenes are also quite good and become even better when they get us so invested in the characters.
Beyond those cool battles, I really love the scene where the clones debate Krell's plan and compare him unfavorably to Anakin. Fives and Jesse, who know this is wrong; Rex, who knows he is wrong but thinks there is room for compromise; Dogma, who has trust no matter what; Kix, who has clear disdain for Krell but takes it out on Rex; Tup, who doesn't know what to think; and Hardcase, who doesn't care. None of these characters act in unreasonable ways, even if we don't agree with them. In fact, they feel really relatable. It just adds to the level of humanity the show has already given for the clones. It asks complicated questions about who these clones are. I like especially that one moment where Fives askes Rex if he really believes what he says, or whether he is engineered. Maybe it was unintentional, but it's a nice callback to Rex's conversation with Cut Lawquane, where he asks him the same thing.
The battle against the crab tanks is in particular very hopeless. That's kinda the theme of this episode: hopelessness. An overlooked character in this arc is Kix. But I think his actions in this episode are perhaps the most affecting. As the medic, he is the most concerned with casualties. He seems the most on edge and frustrated at the situation. Realizing how futile his efforts are, Kix tries to throw himself in with the dead, nearly getting himself killed several times.
But to offset that is the really fun sequence in which Fives and Hardcase commandeer the starfighters. Just them trying to figure out how to fly them is one thing, but it's hard not to smile when they return to win the battle.
I've heard people say this episode is a bit pointless and that Umbara could have been condensed to three parts. I couldn't disagree more. Not only was this episode rife with cool sequences and has great character moments. I also think that the arc would have felt rushed if Fives betrayed Krell in the second episode. And we also wouldn't have time to think and consider if Krell was really all that bad. This was absolutely a necessary episode, one I enjoy very much, and one that hits more incredible highs. Another 9/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 19:46:01 GMT -5
Plan of Dissent may be slower in the action department, but it's not really a problem after the first few episodes having so much. And despite this, it's never dull. There's serious tension throughout and the story is quite good. Once again, the character work is quite good. The episode does a good job balancing Rex and Fives, and it's good to see Rex standing up for Fives and doing his best to cover his actions.
The space battle scene was very well done. Many of the space battles we saw early in the show were very simplistic, just two sides of ships charging at each other. This one looked more like the Battle of Coruscant. I wish the show would do more space battles than they did in the later part of the show. I kinda wish we could've seen Saesee Tinn cameo or something but that's alright.
Hardcase's death is also incredibly done. It is kinda reminiscent of Hevy, but the tone is different enough that it definitely is not a repeat. I like the sequence of things going wrong and Hardcase just throwing himself in there, no questions asked. I definitely didn't expect it but it is one of the best deaths of the entire show. The scene after is also quick but affecting.
The ending is also really good. We all know the story. The commander gives an order. The men under him disobey it and save the day. We've seen it so many times that it's a foregone conclusion. But then they pull the rug from under us and Krell does the exact opposite, the realistic thing.
This is another hell of an episode I'll give it a 9.5/10.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 20:23:19 GMT -5
Carnage of Krell. Holy Potato Rules. Here we go.
Okay, this used to be my absolute favorite episode. It still is really good. I love it. But there are problems I didn't think about when I was 12.
Let's get those out of the way. Rex frustrates me in this episode. I still can't believe that he was fully willing to execute Fives and Jesse. Sure, he didn't want to, but he did nothing to stop it. I like Fives' speech but I wonder if it would have been better if Rex stepped in and said something like that. It just felt kind of ridiculous that Rex went along with Krell until the last possible second, when he would have to be a complete retard to follow him i.e. Dogma. It also would've been more interesting if the clones turned not because Krell was an evil traitor, but because they had enough of his callous nature. if Rex had to make a choice without his hand pretty much being forced. I don't know. I just think there's a better way they could have resolved this.
Furthermore, I would have liked it if Rex killed Krell himself. That's how it was in the original script. Sure it was a bit more surprising to see Dogma do it and I liked that moment, but I think it would have been a good character moment for him to pull the trigger. Also, it seems a bit weird that he would find it so hard to kill Krell but would kill Argus no hesitation just one arc later. Also where was Boil?
Alright, let's get to the Potato Rules I like. Like I said before, I do like Fives' speech. It was a very emotional moment that spoke to the heart of this show. And I liked the moment after with Rex, even though he immediately went back to being Krell's bitch. And the 501st vs 212th. Jesus Christ that was good. I remember it being a bit obvious but that doesn't take away from the scene at all. I know I've said this a lot lately but that is definitely the most powerful scene of Season 4. Waxer's death was such a surprise since we hadn't seen him except for a cameo in "Darkness on Umbara." I feel like if you binge this series, you might not remember who Waxer is, kinda like with Echo's death but as someone who had watched "Innocents of Ryloth" many times, this one hit me. The scenes after were also incredibly badass. I love Rex's dialogue and I love the cool music.
And then we get to Krell vs Clones. It's not really that deep to dissect but it is really well done. Just kinda think how unexpected this climax would be when you first watched the arc. It goes on for just the right amount of time. It's epic. It's brutal. It's satisfying. What comes after is also satisfying. I like how they reference the coming Rise of the Empire, and there's even a nod to Dooku's recent apprentice troubles. We do kinda understand that while Krell is certainly sadistic, he was in fact quite intelligent and had thought out a plan. I kinda already said what I think of the execution scene so I'll leave that there. Rex and Fives' conversation at the end is brief but effectively gives you a sense of the darkness to come.
This is a really really good episode. It's still an excellent one to watch, but I can't call it perfection. There are some things that I wish it did differently but it is still epic, thoughtful, and heartbreaking enough for another solid 9/10.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 21:01:04 GMT -5
Plan of Dissent captures the rising tensions among the clones so nicely. After coming off two episodes of lots of action, here we get more time to breathe and explore the characters. Rex and Fives may be at the center of it, but the other clones are incorporated enough that you don't struggle to remember who is who. It's a lot of fun to watch the clones contemplate deeper questions, too.
The conversation between Fives and Krell that emulated Solo from ANH was a nice touch, but I'm glad they didn't overdo it. The Umbaran technology served as a good challenge to the clones, and made their struggles and successes with it all the more entertaining. Rex's inner turmoil between loyalty to Krell and loyalty to his men nears its peak in this episode as well, making his character so engrossing for the audience to follow.
Once Fives, Jesse, and Hardcase take off, seeing the battle in the skies is a good change of pace with the action. It would've been interesting to have some Republic forces shoot at them, but even without it, I still enjoyed this sequence. Hardcase's sacrifice packed a punch, and the following scene back at the airbase was a good reaction to it. When we see Krell decide to punish the clones for their disobedience despite their success, it's perhaps the coolest shock in the arc.
For me, this episode is the highest point of the arc. Even though it contains the least action, I love the character moments and what action it does entail. I have no major qualms with this one, and in the context of the previous two episodes, it really reaches new heights. I have to award it a 10/10.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 21:28:46 GMT -5
Carnage of Krell is lauded by so many causal fans and critics alike, and it's easy to see why. I wish I could say the same about the conclusion of this amazing arc, but it falls a little short for me. There's a lot to love with this episode, namely the fight between Krell and the 501st. It's brutal, dark, and wild to watch. This episode also delivers other great moments like the execution scene and the 501st vs the 212th. There was real tension in the first, given how this arc has not been shy to do the unexpected. As for the latter sequence, it was so emotional, especially when Waxer died. The episode ends on a strong note with Krell's hints of the Empire and Sith rising. Seeing Rex and Fives contemplate the purpose of the war at the end briefly is also a good touch.
Yet despite all of this, I feel like the episode should have been even better. Large portions of it were predictable, Rex's character seemed a bit off, and the plot could have been stronger. When watching this arc for the first time, I kind of suspected Krell would be a traitor. It's not downright obvious, but I'm sure plenty of people could see it being possible. I don't mind him turning out to be a traitor, but I wish they expanded his motivations or maybe even kept him alive to be a secondary threat later in the series for just one more arc. Krell wanting to join Dooku seemed a little strange, and I almost wish he had just been a complete third party instead.
As powerful as the 501st vs the 212th scene was, it was sort of predictable that it was a set-up by Krell. It doesn't detract from the emotion, but I can't help but be a little disappointed by that. Rex's willingness to allow Fives and Jesse to die was also strange. I suppose his final straw to fully turn on Krell wasn't until the aforementioned twist, but even here I feel like this was a bit odd not to have Rex at least interject and encourage the clones not to go through with the execution versus leaving it to Fives to persuade them.
Again, this episode is still great, but largely due to what the previous episodes established. Maybe if the Krell twist had more to it, I would be more satisfied, but I can't help but feel his betrayal was almost a bit of a lazy ending. I still enjoyed it a lot, but this episode always left me wanting a little more than what it delivered. For that reason, I have to keep it at 8.5/10.
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Post by Newan on Jan 11, 2019 21:42:37 GMT -5
Darkness on Umbara is one of the best openings to any arc, maybe even the best. From the briefing to the fight on the ground the entire opening sequence keeps you engaged and throws you right into the action. There’s no huge buildup in this arc like with Mon Cala or even The Citadel arc. I wouldn’t have minded some more background on Umbara though cause I know historically they were long members of The Republic I think and were well known for their technological advances.
The Oddball cameo was cool, is he apart of Skywalkers or Kenobi group? I assume Anakins cause he has a real fleet whereas Kenobi just has a cruiser and no admiral. I wouldn’t have minded seeing this entire arc with Anakin tbh but Krell was always an intriguing character. I still don’t understand exactly why Anakin was recalled to a Coruscant but wasn’t Krell a part of the invasion force? Shouldn’t he have his own men to lead?
Anyways Krell is kind of troll, I always get a laugh at how he raises his voice and starts shouting ludcaris orders lol “You will March right up this highway” , “you will not retreat under any circumstances”, he clearly read Stalin’s military history.
Also wouldn’t have minded seeing the other attack groups more in this arc. But Torrent Company is cool, I liked that they expanded on Fives, Jesse, Hardcase, Kix, etc.
Anyways this gets a solid 9/10 and probably the highest score an opening episode of a 4 part arc will ever get. (Actually The Unknown and The Lost One are pretty good, so maybe those might)
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Post by Newan on Jan 11, 2019 21:44:32 GMT -5
Krell reaction to Rex at the end does kind of contradict his character later on, maybe he was reconsidering his future actions briefly. I doubt any man in Krell battalion spoke up like that either so.
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Post by Newan on Jan 11, 2019 21:46:16 GMT -5
I kind of wish the show just had more battle arcs like this tbh...
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 11, 2019 21:50:29 GMT -5
Krell reaction to Rex at the end does kind of contradict his character later on, maybe he was reconsidering his future actions briefly. I doubt any man in Krell battalion spoke up like that either so. The way I thought of it was his own attempt at quelling Rex’s dissent before it started.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 22:43:32 GMT -5
Krell reaction to Rex at the end does kind of contradict his character later on, maybe he was reconsidering his future actions briefly. I doubt any man in Krell battalion spoke up like that either so. The way I thought of it was his own attempt at quelling Rex’s dissent before it started. I viewed it as a mix of that and Krell also genuinely admiring Rex for speaking up to him like that.
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Post by Star on Jan 11, 2019 22:50:02 GMT -5
I know this arc was meant to be focused on the 501st, but it would've been cool to see some of the other groups (Ahsoka, Barriss, Saesee Tinn, Kenobi) sprinkled in throughout the arc or at least the start of Darkness on Umbara.
Also apparently the Umbarans left the Republic after their senator died (I think it was in Senate Murders). Strange that Sly Moore stayed to aid Palpatine publicly though, but I guess that she could be an exception.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 12, 2019 0:37:34 GMT -5
I know this arc was meant to be focused on the 501st, but it would've been cool to see some of the other groups (Ahsoka, Barriss, Saesee Tinn, Kenobi) sprinkled in throughout the arc or at least the start of Darkness on Umbara. Also apparently the Umbarans left the Republic after their senator died (I think it was in Senate Murders). Strange that Sly Moore stayed to aid Palpatine publicly though, but I guess that she could be an exception. I'd like to see some cameos at most. But maybe it would've taken the focus away or kinda messed with the tone they were going for. I remember at the time this aired, people wanted the episodes to stop focusing on the 501st and switch to another group.
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Post by Spidyyr on Jan 12, 2019 13:46:26 GMT -5
I think it would have been cool if Krell referenced something greater than Dooku, i.e. Palpatine.
And then what Fives learns in “Orders” could kinda tie back to that.
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Post by Newan on Jan 12, 2019 19:51:32 GMT -5
I’d say The General has always been the odd one out of the Umbara arc, it definitely has the least overall impact but is still better than 80% of the show. Again the battles are among the best we see in the show and it is interesting to see clones operate without Jedi leadership since it’s not like Krell is actually in the battle.
The Umbarans feel like a formidable force, probably the strongest of the show and in that regards I think the Clones May be winning almost too easily despite the feeling of hopelessness presented. The clones should honestly be suffering more casualties and be forced to resort more to air support and other heavy weapons. So yeah I definitely think you can see some plot armor at work when the enemy is presented to be that strong.
The Appo cameo was unexpected but welcomed and I just find Krell to be funny honestly, his orders are just so ridiculous I get a laugh out of it. Maybe it’s the model/ species, and the fact that the only other one we really know of is Dexter lol....
I enjoyed the opening and ending of this episode, the fights again were spectacular and Umbara is one of the best looking planets in the show. Really want to give this episode a 9 but I do feel like there’s some heavy plot armor at work and for that reason I’m reluctantly gonna give this one an 8/10. Again his mah be controversial but the clones do seem to win a bit too easily here...
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Post by Star on Mar 2, 2019 14:07:45 GMT -5
After thinking about it more and in relation to other episodes, I'm boosting Carnage of Krell to a 9/10.
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on May 2, 2019 15:06:36 GMT -5
It feels good to come back to the rewatch with Umbara. As I expected, Darkness still holds up for some pretty top notch, claustrophobic combat scenes, but there are a few flaws. Not sure why no clone helmet comes with nightvision for example, but whatever One part I enjoy is how, at long last, we see a planet that can actually defend. So many times we see worlds that don't have any ability to fight back (which has always seemed stupid), but here the Umbarans put up one hell of fight. Still, I find it odd how a Jedi like Krell, who displays such reckless tactics that cost high amounts of life, isn't at least under the Council's radar. After Dooku and especially with this war, you'd think they would keep an eye on those who seem a bit too... threatening and aggressive. Just another blithering mistake to add to their collection, I suppose Also, how the hell does Krell expect human soldiers to perform their best when they're walking 12 hours straight? I mean, sure, they're human, walking's what we're really good at, but how- oh, wait a minute. Clever. Helping thwart the enemy from within like that. Gripes aside, it remains one great start.
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Post by Maverick-Jedi-Valen on May 25, 2019 15:20:20 GMT -5
There are times where The General tops Darkness. Its battles feature a greater intensity and a dash more tactical cleverness. It's also diabolically creative with the toys the Umbarans play with. Kinda wonder why Palps didn't give these guys a military contract However the evolution of the clones and Krell doesn't really take any new step here. It's the same as last time, Rex is conflicted, the clones hate him and he loves his frontal assaults like Abrams loves his lens flares. Still, it's a good thriller of an episode and, yeah it does get kudos for making so many of the same guy so distinct.
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